West Ham Utd 0-5 Manchester City (10/08/19)

[Billydinho]

It might work.

But my issue is that this is not a new problem. It's not an issue caused by injuries. It's caused because of bad management and planning.

This was a problem at home to Wolves last year when we started with Noble and Wilshere in midfield, and that was in August 2018. Here we are one year later and the problem has actually been exacerbated as we have lost Obiang whilst Noble and Sanchez are another year older.

For me, looking at that squad we just seem completely one-paced in midfield and that is where I would be targeting if I was an opposition manager. Kick Wilshere out of the game, double-up on Rice, push the full-backs on and wait for our ageing and injury-prone midfield to tire and wilt.

Might work? We have seen nothing of Cardoso. He's 18 and in a new league in a new country. Why would you play him out of position?

Can we please stop over-analysing this Man City game. For one half we matched them, in the second we didn't and got punished for it.

The end. Next.

[brooking1966]

[quote="BethnalGreenHammer74 If not Diop, then why don’t we try Cardoso in there alongside Rice?
Turns to Stone
It might work.
But my issue is that this is not a new problem. It's not an issue caused by injuries. It's caused because of bad management and planning.
This was a problem at home to Wolves last year when we started with Noble and Wilshere in midfield, and that was in August 2018. Here we are one year later and the problem has actually been exacerbated as we have lost Obiang whilst Noble and Sanchez are another year older.

For me, looking at that squad we just seem completely one-paced in midfield and that is where I would be targeting if I was an opposition manager. Kick Wilshere out of the game, double-up on Rice, push the full-backs on and wait for our ageing and injury-prone midfield to tire and wilt.[/quote]



Love to see Cardoso or Zaba given a go at DM next to Rice. Cardoso being taller & more aggressive with the energy of youth & a sweet LF. Zaba with more defensive nous & experience to be the organizer/Leader. He also speaks 2 of our predominant languages to communicate & cajole the likes of Fornals/Lanzini .

Formation wise 3 at the back with wing backs may be more effective with our current personnel until we can get that elusive B2B player with physical presence.

---------------------------Fab
---------------------------Diop
--------------fredricks----------- Balbuena
Antonio ----------------Rice-------------------Masuaku
-------------- Fornals----------- Anderson
---------------------------Lanzini
---------------------------Haller

or

---------------------------Fab
---------------------------Diop
------------Balbuena----------- Cardoso
Fredricks ----------------Rice------------------Masuaku
--------------Anderson----------- Fornals
-----------------------------------------Antonio
---------------------------Haller

Wilshire & Lanzini both need more stamina for 90mins before we can rely on them. Lanzini should only play in behind Haller as 2nd striker/tip of diamond because of the dangerous (for us) areas he can lose the ball without recovering adequetly.
Antonio offers another dimension in behind & has the brawn we need to battle up top.
Overall more speed & energy through midfield is a must.

[anjado]

The reason we always get smashed by Manchester City at home is that our pitch is way too big.

Although it's bigger than the Boleyn's (that was the smallest in the league at the time), it's pretty much the standard size for pitches in England and Scotland, by that, I mean the mode average. Having a smaller pitch could help with defending, but I doubt it really has much of an effect. Burnley's is the same size as ours.

https://www.football-stadiums.co.uk/art ... same-size/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brighton has the biggest pitch in the league, and there are some in the lower leagues that are even bigger.[/quote]

This is going to come across as a bit paranoid but I don't believe our pitch and Burnley's pitch are the same size or that Brighton have the biggest pitch in the league. I understand this is a fact so to speak but just looking at our pitch and looking at other teams pitches ours looks noticeably bigger.

So it's something i find difficult to comprehend even if it's an illusion.

https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/201 ... dimensions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think quite a lot of older stadiums must lie about the size of their pitch due to not being able to meet the standard required if the Boleyn ground was too small there is no reason to think Turf Moor and the like are bigger than the Boleyn was.

I understand you are posting what they say the pitch dimensions are it just looks off to me.

[The Moth]

Im suprised people see Wilshire has more of an attacking mid, Ive always seen him as a deep lying midfileder or a box to box CM. Southgate not long ago said much the same, but plenty on here have made their mind up on him , hes not tall enough and doesnt run around enough.

If he gets close to his best then hes absolutely class and always has been , and Id rather we gave an English lad like him (and a west ham fan too!) Whos got real qaulity and a football brain a chance rather then sign someone from overseas simly because they are taller or physically stronger. I find it embarrassing the stick people give him on here for his performance against City, totally undeserved as he was well disciplined next to Rice and played well. Im proud that we have three english talents in midfield in rice Noble and Wishire would love to see the three of them play together

[Billydinho]

Width and length.

I'd say some pitches are longer than our but our pitch is definitely too wide to play against the top sides as they just open us up.

It'll be the same again with Liverpool this year.

[YorksHammer]

I really hate this square pegs in round holes thing people have around defensive midfield.

Move an ageing right back there? Nope. Move our star centre back there? Nope. Use our new young centre back there? Nope (although the best option of a bad idea).

We're going to control games against teams in this division with that midfield - just needs a bit of time.

Picking out bright spots from yesterday, I would actually say that what impressed was the way Rice, Wilshere, and Lanzini used the ball - and I'd even be tempted to extend that to Haller. Between those four I thought we had some really nice interplay.

Looking forward to the next couple of games, which I think will provide a much better barometer of where we're at than a team which we have now conceded nine goals against already this season, if you count friendlies.

[Ozza]

I thought Jack was an Arsenal fan from a West Ham family?

[Turns to Stone]

Im proud that we have three english talents in midfield in rice Noble and Wishire would love to see the three of them play together

I think that's our best midfield, definitely.

My frustration is that if one of Rice or Noble gets injured, the back-ups are either a long drop off, or different sorts of players (like Fornals or Snodgrass).

[Turns to Stone]

Might work? We have seen nothing of Cardoso. He's 18 and in a new league in a new country. Why would you play him out of position?

It wasn't my suggestion. I was just being polite as I've never actually seen the lad play. Some are perhaps thinking that maybe as Rice was a centre-half 12 months ago that it might work.

Personally, I'd rather we had replaced Obiang. But as you say, there's probably more analysis than is necessary given that they're the best team in the country.

The centre of midfield worries me though.

[Billydinho]

The real tests of our season won't be the like of Man City.

[mushy]

But my issue is that this is not a new problem. It's not an issue caused by injuries. It's caused because of bad management and planning.



For me, looking at that squad we just seem completely one-paced in midfield and that is where I would be targeting if I was an opposition manager. Kick Wilshere out of the game, double-up on Rice, push the full-backs on and wait for our ageing and injury-prone midfield to tire and wilt.

One paced and particularly light weight.
Lanzini and Wiltshire were continually knocked off the ball on Saturday, Anderson hardly saw the ball. The better teams not only have better technique, they are also fitter and stronger.
We can't live with that I am afraid.
We miss a strong pacey Kouyate type player, there for running and strength to get in the way and break up play.

You are correct TTS that the areas you mention are the areas that all teams will target. Sometimes we look predictable and that makes us easy to play against.
Let's see what happens in the next six or seven games

[Wilko1304]

I thought Wilshere was excellent in there for 45 minutes. And I think we looked at our worse after he went off when we put in a more physical and disruptive player in there (Snodgrass).

All four defenders played pretty poorly. I also think we tired and couldn’t find any extra because of how they were playing and the game situation

[Patito]

I thought Jack was an Arsenal fan from a West Ham family?

People will have seen the picture of me in a West Ham shirt and I’ve got good memories of my childhood supporting West Ham, watching them at Upton Park.

[Billy Hunt]

I thought Wilshere was excellent in there for 45 minutes. And I think we looked at our worse after he went off when we put in a more physical and disruptive player in there (Snodgrass).

All four defenders played pretty poorly. I also think we tired and couldn’t find any extra because of how they were playing and the game situation

Agree with that, but I'd say the entire back six were all below par, Rice and Fabianski included.

That said, it was against an excellent team who clearly upped their game second half. Move on. it happens

[The Old Man of Storr]

So, Saturday, a lack of physicality alongside Rice, fullbacks that struggle defensively, and a game plan that was beyond naive.



Pelle's sent out a relatively attacking line up, yet we barely made their keeper do a thing, so what was the point of it ? City were a bit rusty for the first half an hour or so - we kind of competed in so much as we didn't concede for 25 minutes, but they kept with their standard rope -a dope tactic of sucking opposition players forward to create space, stretch the gaps between our lines, and then they simply pass the ball through us and score at will.



For the umpteenth time, they are not going to score against us from deep inside their own half: surrender that space - because it simply doesn't matter -and defend our own half, and specifically our own box.


.

Yeah , we get what you're saying and yes Pellegrini had the choice of setting up like we did against Chelsea at Home and to a certain extent , Everton Away last season when we had Obiang playing alongside Rice [ and Noble ] . At best it might gain you a point but in the end just like Custer's Last Stand there'll be too many injuns coming at you and eventually they get you .

On another day Lanzini may well have broken free of his opponent and got a shot off and scored but once they got that goal and their 2nd quick goal it was all over bar the shouting .

You can yellow card the Manager and call him ' Naive ' or you can call him ' Principled ' and that he set us up to entertain the crowd which is ultimately what you pay to see .

I actually find Manchester City a boring side to watch and while their snidey fouling might be seen by their sycophantic followers as ' professional ' personally I just see them as workmanlike and negative , entertaining they are not .

I'll stick with Manuel Pellegrini all day long , it's only a game after all .

[w4hammer]

For me, looking at that squad we just seem completely one-paced in midfield and that is where I would be targeting if I was an opposition manager. Kick Wilshere out of the game, double-up on Rice, push the full-backs on and wait for our ageing and injury-prone midfield to tire and wilt.

this is spot on and something ive been banging on about for ages--- if you look at what city were doing all day they compress the play to such an extent that when they chose to move the ball wide, the full backs either look or are actually exposed all the time and end up facing two players - we wont get their level of torment every week ( hopefully) however with a front three who really dont have any interest in defending, unless we duplicate Rice, I can see us continue to get turned over in the same manner

[DannyboyDJL]

Just remembered the start of last season and our 4 defeats. We only turned it round once Wilshere came out of the side. He needs a big big game against Brighton.

[Hugh Jargon]

Ref Wilshire. Are posters completely ignoring a complete season of avreageness at Bournemouth?
Best games he has had in recent years are against very poor sides in the Europa league. I think he is finished personally. Hope I'm wrong.

[Colours never run]

He was doing just fine for us in the middle, popping the ball around nicely and mucked in along the way beside Rice, as well as join some attacks during 1st half when we predominantly played well. We lost our way completely once he went off and neither Fornals or Snodgrass effected the game enough in the middle to stop the onslaught that ensued. We looked all at sea in the final part of the game which you can ill afford to lose the likes of savvy passing, tackling midfielders such as Wilshere or Noble against such opposition.

[smuts]

As we are crying out for a midfielder to protect our back four, what are people’s thought’s on maybe putting Diop in there alongside Rice?

The way Diop blundered around on Saturday he might do less damage further up....

But then it means Oggy coming in