Brighton & Hove Albion 1-1 West Ham Utd (17/08/19)

[Gsbgsb]

the most dangerous player on the field is the one with the ball...

coaching 101

He can pass it or he can shoot. Cover an easy pass or more difficult shot?

[bristolhammerfc]

Was just going to write the same Ouston.

I was always coached to close down the player and reduce his decision making time. Force him to play the ball on your terms.

No one is denying the midfielders should have tracked but he has the control at that time

[bristolhammerfc]

Ogbonna has long been the guy that people like putting the blame.

You have pulled a couple of quotes from yesterday's match thread where none of our players covered themselves in glory. That's no "long been".

[Cuenca 'ammer]

bristol

spot on.......force the player to make decisions (plural) - if you hurry him he's more likely to make a mistake....

if that wasn't the case why do most successful teams employ the press ?

[Gsbgsb]

Was just going to write the same Ouston.

I was always coached to close down the player and reduce his decision making time. Force him to play the ball on your terms.

No one is denying the midfielders should have tracked but he has the control at that time

At that point in time Ogbonna has zero control of the situation because of what has happened to that point, press the player and it is an easy pass to a player through on goal, try to prevent that and the player has a shooting opportunity himself. All the control was with the Brighton player.

Had Arthur been where he should have been a few yards to his left then the decision is an easy one to go to the player with the ball and leave the others to Arthur but, as is too often the case, Arthur was totally out of position. Equally had Rice been recovering to pressure the shooter then making the pass difficult was the way to go.

Hobson’s choice but let down by his teammates.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

not wishing to start an argument...

but have you ever coached ? (not that this disqualifies you at all) but if players EVER stand off you make life easier for them.

the object of the game is to close down your opposition. doing nothing at all makes life easier for them.

on top of that, if the player DOES pass then the angle to the goal is wider, the target narrower and then favours the goalie.

force the player away from the goal.

force play backwards
force play sideways
don't allow the forward pass (shot)

[Crouchend_Hammer]

It was a goal where a number of players did not cover themselves in glory but primary culprit was Diop in my view.
But as you say, we have just gone one nil up with less than 30 mins to go so no idea why our players are haring all over the park. Just keep the shape for 10 minutes and then look for number 2
Poor game managememt

[Cuenca 'ammer]

crouchy

yes mate.....correct thinking

however loads of teams give up a goal just after scoring.....can't produce statistics but it's a mental approach...

and with us lot I would say we're pretty much worse than a load. not saying we're the worst.

how many early goals do we give up ?

how many late goals do we give up ?

others have pointed we're mentally weak. all over the park. not enough strong characters.

Pellers keeps telling us he wants us to have a "big club mentality" but we're still a long way from it.

a very long way.

[Gsbgsb]

not wishing to start an argument...

but have you ever coached ? (not that this disqualifies you at all) but if players EVER stand off you make life easier for them.

the object of the game is to close down your opposition. doing nothing at all makes life easier for them.

on top of that, if the player DOES pass then the angle to the goal is wider, the target narrower and then favours the goalie.

force the player away from the goal.

force play backwards
force play sideways
don't allow the forward pass (shot)

Never coached at anything higher than a work level however do not leave one player with 2/3 opponents 18 yards from goal was always a high priority when coached and the few teams I did coach. For a team that had just taken the lead away from home we had zero defensive shape when they scored. If he goes then maybe the chance for the other players is more difficult, if he stays maybe the striker pulls the shot. If the other players did their job right for me the chances of a goal get dramatically reduced.

I am not saying Ogbonna is without some blame because the ball did go in but for me he is very near the bottom of the blame list not the top which is what has seemed to attract on here. The idea that if he had gone to the ball no goal would have been scored is plain wrong. There was always a 50/50 at least of a goal whichever choice he made due to the position he found himself in. Had other players done their job then the odds would have been reduced thus the fault lies far more with them than him.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

Diop was the worst culprit

got easily bullied couldn't get the ball and then went to ground far too easily.

then Oggie did not close down quick enough. he would have done far better making the player make a perfect pass. if that pass isn't exact the other player has to take time to control it, maybe he makes a mistake.

standing off when the ball is at the top of the box almost smack in the centre of the goal - giving him pretty much the whole target to aim at is unforgivable.

as pointed out there's more than enough blame to go around, as crouchy says what the hell are we doing going gung ho all over the park - it wasn't as if time was running out and we were 2 goals down.

our defending most of last year and this pre season and last week has been awful. truly dreadful.

and unfortunately I don't see it improving much any time soon

there was a reason that Fabianski made the most saves last season and we kept pretty much fewer clean sheets than most.

[Paolopaul]

not wishing to start an argument...

but have you ever coached ? (not that this disqualifies you at all) but if players EVER stand off you make life easier for them.

the object of the game is to close down your opposition. doing nothing at all makes life easier for them.

on top of that, if the player DOES pass then the angle to the goal is wider, the target narrower and then favours the goalie.

force the player away from the goal.

force play backwards
force play sideways
don't allow the forward pass (shot)

Surely it’s different when it’s 2 on 1, as it effectively was for Ogbonna yesterday.

I seem to remember Van Dijk getting a lot of praise last season for letting Sissoko of spurs shoot when it was 2 on 1, choosing to block the pass instead. You have to read the game and decide what is the lowest risk. Trossard had a shot from outside the area, probably lower risk than if he had passed it to the player to his right who would have had a shot inside the penalty area.

The only difference is Trossard scored, whereas Sissoko hoofed the ball over the bar. The defending is the same.

[Cuenca 'ammer]

paolo

maybe that's what the pundits say. they just about w**k off everything related to VVD.

anyway, my own personal philosophy is to step up put pressure on the player with the ball.

maybe the player he passes to steps up too soon and is offside

you have to force (again imvho) the player with the ball to do something. standing off is doing nothing at all.
he can pass, he can shoot.

[Gsbgsb]

Cuenca

I would not disagree but for me the order the goal is

1. The defensive shape, players in the right position have the best chance of covering an individual error. Perhaps this is MP or as likely the players not taking responsibility to play according to the game situation. Rice is meant to be the DM, Wilshere is a covering CM, Arthur is meant to be the LB if the manager has to tell you where to go every minute then something is wrong.

2. Diop for being generally out muscled, the first and most significant individual error.

3 Ogbonna for a decision that proved to be the wrong one, just hope no-one blaming him now would have blamed him for going to the ball and being passed around. I fear a number would.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

Yes, Ogbonna had a choice; prevent the shot or close off the pass. the point is he did neither, he stood off and let Trossard do what he wanted.

[Kialos]

Ogbonna was pathetic not dealing with the player who crossed the ball leading to the disallowed goal. Made no effort whatsoever to try and stop the cross.

Perhaps they didn't show that on the TV highlights.

Before people say it was offside so didn't matter, yes it does. You always play to the whistle.

[S-H]

Who predicted this thread would reach 70 pages?

10 to go...

[e17]

Ogbonna was pathetic not dealing with the player who crossed the ball leading to the disallowed goal. Made no effort whatsoever to try and stop the cross.

Which was annoying because he’d been fairly decent up to that brainfart

[Cuenca 'ammer]

gsb

all fair enough mate and as I say, all down to personal philosophy and we can't know what Pellers wants

as I said, Diop was the worst culprit

http://goals2.viuclips.net/player/html/ ... autoplay=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1:10

look where Diop is, our back 4 aren't right

Diop should be closer over to Oggie, Fredericks has covered the right side Murray gets between the 2 of them 50 yards from goal.

Murray wins the foot race !!!!!!!



then Diop gets bullied off the ball, loses control, goes to ground. Oggie stands off.

awful defending beginning from where Diop's starting position is. it was a long hopeful ball over the top, purely speculative.

like I say, our defending hasn't progressed from last year at all. well not consistently that is.

I suppose that's why we are who we are and why we're where we are.

65 odds years now - you'd think I'd get over it.

I haven't - and you won't either !!!!!!!!

:lol:

[Patito]

Yes, Ogbonna had a choice; prevent the shot or close off the pass. the point is he did neither, he stood off and let Trossard do what he wanted.

Was about to post exactly the same thing.

[Coops]

Has anybody got a link to the full game or extended highlights please?