Watford 1-3 West Ham Utd (24/08/19)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Pulls up Trees
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Pulls up Trees » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:18 am

Patito wrote:
I mean, we've got some pretty ****ing good players to be fair. Whether we can get them playing together is another thing, but quality wise, we are 'good enough' to beat Watford.
On that basis we were good enough to beat Brighton, or Burnley, or Cardiff. As you say it's getting them to play collectively. Not seeing much of that so far tbh.

Gsbgsb
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Gsbgsb » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:21 am

injuries as usual are key, get Haller and Anderson fit and we should certainly be good enough to secure something from the game presuming we do the basics right and want to compete.

Arthur moments like the goal for Brighton and we will struggle, that sort of rubbish creates opportunities and causes goals against well disciplined sides even if on paper we have the more skilful players. I do not want players who cannot put in the effort or be bothered about the shirt. I hope it was a one off but it was still not acceptable.

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WorcesterWHU
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by WorcesterWHU » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:37 am

You'd have to figure Haller and Anderson will be back for this one and Antonio on from the start.

Just looking for a more cohesive performance that looks like we have a plan. We're supposed to be this free-flowing, attacking side - yet were completely nullified in the first half against Brighton. If we're going to be dodgy at the back it needs to be justified in what we do going the other way; hopefully Haller and Anderson will change that.

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NW5hammer
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by NW5hammer » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:42 am

I was pleased with our summer signings but I think Watford did well with Sarr, Dawson and Welbeck.
At some point they will get their mojo back.
I will be happy if we get a point.

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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by YorksHammer » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:47 am

Gsbgsb wrote:Arthur moments like the goal for Brighton and we will struggle
I've got to ask - how was the goal against Brighton Masuaku's fault?

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WorcesterWHU
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by WorcesterWHU » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:56 am

YorksHammer wrote:
I've got to ask - how was the goal against Brighton Masuaku's fault?
I think because he's a lightning rod. Got to have one! He might not have seen the danger developing but in general play I thought he was fine.

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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Gsbgsb » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:10 pm

Watch the you tube video at the times I set out in the post on the Brighton thread. At 5:12 in he is in a barely acceptable 4 but that is something to be dealt with on the training field.

By 5:14 the other 3 have dropped back to try to deal with the danger, he is 10 yards further upfield and our shape is being pulled apart, by 5:16 one of the Brighton players who were 5 yards closer to their goal at the start is 5 yards beyond him the other is level, by 5:18 they have both gone beyond him.

Either he is slower than a tortoise or thought a recovery jog not run was acceptable. Had he as a minimum stayed in the shape he would have been outside Ogbonna and removed any question about whether Ogbonna goes to the ball or covers the pass, he would have been dealing with the players to whom it could have been passed. As it is his total lack of discipline or application leaves Ogbonna in the dilemma he faced.

That is how he was responsible for the goal as much if not more than Ogbonna. Once one defender gives up the chance of others making mistakes or being pulled apart increases dramatically as they have also to try to do their job for them.

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Patito
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Patito » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:24 pm

Pulls up Trees wrote:
On that basis we were good enough to beat Brighton, or Burnley, or Cardiff. As you say it's getting them to play collectively. Not seeing much of that so far tbh.
We did beat two of them last season. :wink:

Give it time, we've played the Man City Globetrotters plus an in-form team without two of our best attackers, we'll get there.

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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by hawkins_hammer » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:39 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:Watch the you tube video at the times I set out in the post on the Brighton thread. At 5:12 in he is in a barely acceptable 4 but that is something to be dealt with on the training field.

By 5:14 the other 3 have dropped back to try to deal with the danger, he is 10 yards further upfield and our shape is being pulled apart, by 5:16 one of the Brighton players who were 5 yards closer to their goal at the start is 5 yards beyond him the other is level, by 5:18 they have both gone beyond him.

Either he is slower than a tortoise or thought a recovery jog not run was acceptable. Had he as a minimum stayed in the shape he would have been outside Ogbonna and removed any question about whether Ogbonna goes to the ball or covers the pass, he would have been dealing with the players to whom it could have been passed. As it is his total lack of discipline or application leaves Ogbonna in the dilemma he faced.

That is how he was responsible for the goal as much if not more than Ogbonna. Once one defender gives up the chance of others making mistakes or being pulled apart increases dramatically as they have also to try to do their job for them.
This :thup:

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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Cockneyboy311 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:52 pm

NW5hammer wrote:I was pleased with our summer signings but I think Watford did well with Sarr, Dawson and Welbeck.
At some point they will get their mojo back.
I will be happy if we get a point.
Watford are another of our bogey teams it seems. Nailed on Deeney to score. 1-1 or 2-2. We'll take time to get properly going like last year.

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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by arlhe » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:26 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:Watch the you tube video at the times I set out in the post on the Brighton thread. At 5:12 in he is in a barely acceptable 4 but that is something to be dealt with on the training field.

By 5:14 the other 3 have dropped back to try to deal with the danger, he is 10 yards further upfield and our shape is being pulled apart, by 5:16 one of the Brighton players who were 5 yards closer to their goal at the start is 5 yards beyond him the other is level, by 5:18 they have both gone beyond him.

Either he is slower than a tortoise or thought a recovery jog not run was acceptable. Had he as a minimum stayed in the shape he would have been outside Ogbonna and removed any question about whether Ogbonna goes to the ball or covers the pass, he would have been dealing with the players to whom it could have been passed. As it is his total lack of discipline or application leaves Ogbonna in the dilemma he faced.

That is how he was responsible for the goal as much if not more than Ogbonna. Once one defender gives up the chance of others making mistakes or being pulled apart increases dramatically as they have also to try to do their job for them.
On that basis, where was Rice?

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Graza
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Graza » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:27 pm

Having had the toughest game possible to open and then scraping a point against one of our many bogey teams last week we aren't in the worst position coming into this one.

Watford are no slouches and it's another good early test to see what we might be capable of this season. Anderson and Haller back from injury should give us a boost too.

I think we'll definitely get on the score sheet but the question is will we stop them doing the same... On current evidence, no. So I think this will be 2-1 either way.

-----------------------fab
Fredricks -- Diop -- Balbuena -- Masuaku
------------------ Rice -- Lanzini
Antonio -------- Fornals --------- Anderson
----------------------Haller

Lanzini did well when he sat back against Brighton, I'd be keen to see if he can replicate that. If the manager thinks he's get bullied then Noble if back to replace Fornals with Lanzini further up, or Wilshere.

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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Gsbgsb » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:47 pm

Rice was also on the left, 5-7 yards ahead of Arthur. Good as he is Rice is not blessed with great pace yet by the end he is closer to making a challenge than Arthur. I do not blame players for being beaten by quicker players as Cresswell was last week, that is the nature of things. Not giving your all is different though.

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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by jonbentleywhu » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:43 pm

we really could do with Noble back to partner Rice for this one. Capoue and Doucoure are a solid unit in that midfield.
Hope Masuaku keeps his place as I dread to think what Deulofeu will do to Cresswell.

can see an exciting game but with our injury doubts im not feeling too confident.

hammerman11
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by hammerman11 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:55 pm

pelle will change a few for this one with I hope Balbuena noble haller and Anderson coming in

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Samba
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Samba » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:13 pm

Estuary wrote:They are not a good team over all if you keep the ball away from Deulofeu, what they do well is bully smaller weaker sides in midfield but if you get at them early they fold.
Don't forget the bullying that, Troy 'pulls-your-face-off' Deeney, is quite capable of..

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StevePottsGoalsReel
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:10 pm

Cockneyboy311 wrote:Watford are another of our bogey teams it seems.
Has anyone worked out which teams aren't our bogey teams yet? :wink:

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BondsoBob
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by BondsoBob » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:52 pm

Has anyone worked out which teams aren't our bogey teams yet? :wink:[/quote]


Well there's....err..and there's...err ...not forgetting err..um...and...oh bollox! I give up!

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JonG86
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by JonG86 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:30 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:Rice was also on the left, 5-7 yards ahead of Arthur. Good as he is Rice is not blessed with great pace yet by the end he is closer to making a challenge than Arthur. I do not blame players for being beaten by quicker players as Cresswell was last week, that is the nature of things. Not giving your all is different though.
Saying the goal was Masuakus fault is just silly. Rice got beaten, Diop got bullied and Ogbonna failed to cut off the shot across goal, they're directly at fault. Masuaku should be making a covering run, but his absence isn't a contributong factor.

Team for Saturday:

4-1-4-1

Fab
Fred
Fab
Diop
Masu
Rice
Wilshire
Fornals
Lanzini
Anderson
Haller

Screw the haters. :scarfer:

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Colours never run
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Colours never run » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:38 pm

I'm no big fan of Masuaku, but even I wouldn't put the blame at his door for that goal. That was all down to Diop and Ogbonna not dealing with the situation well either clearing their lines first time, or closing the ball down closing the angle and turning their back on the shot instead. It wasn't the cleverest or bravest of defending but nothing much to do with Masuaku this time.

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