Watford 1-3 West Ham Utd (24/08/19)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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Patito
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Patito »

Up the Junction wrote:The opposition view: Watford
https://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=133816

What a strange bunch, very entitled. Liverpool of the south perhaps? According to that we were rubbish and the ref handed us the win on a plate.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by artlin »

If you lived in Hertfordshire but thought that you lived in LONDON then you would be weird as well.

:lol:
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by chigwells finest »

What a strange bunch, very entitled. Liverpool of the south perhaps? According to that we were rubbish and the ref handed us the win on a plate.

they were not a happy bunch on the OV , its not our fault they missed an open goal and the fact
that we outplayed them either , 10 shots on target suggests we were well worth our win , and without
Mr Deeney softening up the opposing teams defence , they were a bit toothless
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by tizzwoz »

If I was a Watford fan, id feel a bit mugged today too. Over the course of the 90 minutes, I thought they had the better chances, they just didn't finish them off. I think they're quite similar to us as a team. Always a bit ropey at the back, some nice players who like to play, and inconsistant in attack. 3-1 flattered us really, but that's what its about... punishing teams who don't take their chances.

Yarma worries me. Not because he lacks quality... I just think he's not up to the pace of the Premier League. He was blowing after 20 minutes. Yes, he's coming back from a bad injury, but he was fully fit at the back of the last season and had a full pre-season. I worry that he's naturally just a lazy player. Antonio's form so far this season has to make him a certain starter next epl game.
.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

We can talk about Watford's missed chances all day long and yes had Hughes connected properly with his right foot they would have regained the lead and who knows how the game would have ended , but you could say the same about Anderson and Antonio's headers which either hit the post or were saved , it's goals wot matter and we scored 3 to their one .

I was worried about this season after Arnautovic left but having seen Sebastian Haller's performance yesterday I am confident we've bought an upgrade on the temperamental Austrian - Haller is an excellent frontman - he drops back bringing others into play , his hold up play is first class he doesn't panic he waits while others make up ground and he sees the pass , his best attribute is his striking instinct and he has more than one string to his bow in that department as shown yesterday , if he can stay fit he'll score upwards of 15 goals this season . Anderson and Haller look an exciting pairing .

Defensively we're looking frail but defending starts with the centre forward - when Watford scored their only goal of the match Doucoure and Deulofeu were allowed to advance from their own penalty area to the edge of ours without a single challenge being put in , they had 5 players to our 6 with Gray finishing well - earlier on Deulofeu was left unmarked on the left with 6 of our players almost within touching distance of each other - it's something Pellegrini will have to work on , hopefully when Balbuena returns to first team duties things will get better .

Anyway , we won 1-3 and currently on the same points as Manchester United , Tottenham and Chelsea . :)
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by dodger »

tizzwoz wrote:If I was a Watford fan, id feel a bit mugged today too. Over the course of the 90 minutes, I thought they had the better chances, they just didn't finish them off. I think they're quite similar to us as a team. Always a bit ropey at the back, some nice players who like to play, and inconsistant in attack. 3-1 flattered us really, but that's what its about... punishing teams who don't take their chances.


.
Counting clearcut chances in the match, I think we had a few more.

For them (5): Delefeu hitting the bar, shot blocked by Diop, goal by Gray, Cleverley chance, miss by Hughes,
For us (8): Haller/Lanzini chance in leadup to the penalty, Lanzini stabbing wide, Anderson off the post, Antonio clean through, Haller’s first goal, Anderson two on one shot blocked, Antonio header saved, Antonio hits bar/Haller goal.

They had a few more half-chances but we definitely created the best opportunities in the game for me.

No way they were mugged, although perhaps 3-4 would have been a fairer reflection than 1-3.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by EastleighHammer16 »

I'm sure the MOTD stats had something like 3.6 xg for us and 1.6 for them. We were well worth the win yesterday. They could of scored a couple more but we could of scored 4 more.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

Gray had another good chance where they worked another 5v5 from a Yarmolenko turnover, while Doucoure arguably should have scored with a header - though we could argue it was brilliantly blocked by Fredericks....

It really was an even game, but we just showed a bit more quality when it mattered. Haller's finish for the 3rd was superb.

They weren't robbed; they came up short at vital moments.

I saw some interesting numbers earlier today - we have one of the lowest shots per game rates so far - but the number we get on target as a proportion is joint highest in the league (along with Norwich).

This xG malarkey doesn't say what the score 'should' be imo - it just shows how much teams vary from an average, IIUI properly.

No one in their right minds looks at Noble and thinks it's only a 76% chance he's going to score from a penalty, for example.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Faithless »

EastleighHammer16 wrote:I'm sure the MOTD stats had something like 3.6 xg for us and 1.6 for them. We were well worth the win yesterday. They could of scored a couple more but we could of scored 4 more.
I just posted this in the Haller thread:

I finally decided to get an understanding of the xG stat malarky, apparently Hallers 2nd goal would've been scored 94% (xG 0.94) of the time by a player in that position and his first would've been scored 64% (xG 0.64) of the time. I'm not sure these xG stats are up to much if I am understanding them correctly.

Pretty much what bubbs has put inc marlarky - beaten to it.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Harry Hound »

tizzwoz wrote:
Yarma worries me. Not because he lacks quality... I just think he's not up to the pace of the Premier League. He was blowing after 20 minutes. Yes, he's coming back from a bad injury, but he was fully fit at the back of the last season and had a full pre-season. I worry that he's naturally just a lazy player. Antonio's form so far this season has to make him a certain starter next epl game.
.
That's pretty much how I see him. He's a fairly decent player but lacks confidence and looks like he may be too fragile for the premier league.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Het-Field »

I can understand Watford’s frustrations. Especially as they are another club who have possibly had slightly more success than us, in real terms, since returning to the PL. They have been sensible in the transfer market, and been able to hold the likes of Troy Deeny who has been generally a 10-15 goal a season striker, which is mid table rarity.

However, the fans mention in OV would seem to view us as the team we were as opposed to the team we are. A prime example of current quality was the work for the second goal which was the product of much skill and finished off by two players who cost a combined £80 Million. It also looks like Lanzini is quickly returning to his best, and Noble and Rice are anchoring the midfield. Pelly also knew when to spring Antonio which changed the direction of the game.

If you look to our style over the past year, you can see how much it’s changed from the 18 months between Payet leaving and Pelly arriving, and when you’re not trying to rely on a constipated midfield, or when you are not hoping to draw blood from a stone during periods of high injury levels, you can emerge from a statistically 50/50 game with a 3-1 win.

Watford have not improved in personnel over the summer. Sarr will make a difference, but if our dealings this summer had involved Welbeck and Dawson the discussions on here would have been intense. Watford are also 0/3 over fixtures which were winnable (from their point of view) and involved none of the traditional top six, with two games at home. Put ourselves in their shoes, and I don’t think it’s an entitlement culture.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by netheniron »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Just seen MOTD.
That Will Hughes miss may well be one of those sliding door moments that define our season. Similar to the Kanoute penalty miss
Oh yes, that miss. I still recall thinking at the time it was a season defining moment. I was on holiday in Cornwall at the time. Irrelevant that, I accept.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by netheniron »

funky chicken wrote:That must of been a very good game to watch for the neutrals.
There were neutrals watching Watford vs. WHUF? That opens up a sector of modern society I never suspected existed.

I'm in.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Puff Daddy »

So, Watford fans a little bit ****ed off with Duckers. Kinnell, who would've thunk that?
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by OohAahButler »

Interesting OV. Every club seems to think they get a raw deal from the officials - it’s not just us. I think the ref got everything pretty much right, apart from two things:

When VAR showed up Gray’s penalty appeal to be a clear dive, he should have got booked.

Our subs should have got booked for not leaving by the nearest touchline - a good new rule which needs to be enforced, and fast, if it’s going to stick. I’d have been steaming if it had been the opposition doing that.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by richneal »

funky chicken wrote:That must of been a very good game to watch for the neutrals. I thought it was really refreshing to see 2 middle table teams both try to play good attacking football in the right way.
Very entertaining match, could have gone either way. I'd argue it's the only type of game worth watching.Congrats to Watford in going for the win.

Couple of points - as everyone noted, we're definitely weaker at the back when the manager elects to emphasize attack - I don't have an issue with that.

Again, quite easy to argue that like Brighton last week, we got the result because of the opposition's repeated failure to score from what seemed like clear-cut chances. You could argue that we were simply lucky and that the same performance against stronger teams wouldn't be as fruitful.You could also argue that we were more clinical in front of goal so deserved the win. And I'm sure you could argue that the gaffer's strategic emphasis on attack - including bringing on Antonio - was the reason for the win. Those four positions aren't mutually exclusive. There's probably a few more we could add.

It's really easy for armchair managers like me to attribute results to any number of issues - after the fact. It's easy to cherry-pick descriptive stats and stale descriptive narratives (thank-you Lawro, Sky and all the pundits for making a career out of that). Much harder to offer a prescriptive - i.e. predictive - profile of what will happen for the rest of the season.

Seems to me that Pellegrini is setting us up to - and counting on us to - outscore the opposition for the majority of the matches we play. My guess is it's the season-long strategy. Yes, we're going to have holes all over the place, but a win is a win and it makes for nail-biting and truly entertaining games.:thup:
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Greatest Cockney Rip Off »

Watford really only had theirselves to blame for that defeat. We were up against it on many occasions - Hughes miss was probably the turning point. He really should have buried that it was was harder to miss than put it in the back of the net. We were let off the hook there.
Antonio coming on for us was the turning point and he should have really started the game as Yamalenko really wasn't making an impact at all. He also missed a sitter which could have turned the game but didn't take his chance. Antonio's pace was the turning point and I think we'll struggle without him. At times he looked like a lone striker.

Anyway, the battle is over and the war is won.

ONWARDS! :crest:
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Paolopaul »

If Haller's second goal had an XG of 0.94 then the system is really flawed. I'd argue that many players wouldn't have even attempted an overhead, and at that height keeping it down wasn't easy either.

Anyone know what the XG was for Hughes' miss?
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by hammer1975 »

Is Antonio playing well as sub because he should be starting or is he changing the game because he isn’t starting and he’s out to prove a point?

Under Pellegrini he’s returned to his best form. Prior to that there were lots of comments about coasting, not working hard enough, bulking up too much etc. Some of this may have been due to a succession of injuries. Whatever Pellegrini is doing with him it’s working so i’d be inclined to trust him.
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Re: ⚽ Watford v West Ham Utd: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Not sure why people think Pelli is going to recall Balbuena.
He clearly, at this point, prefers Ogbonna and there is no reason to change it
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