West Ham Utd 1-2 Crystal Palace (05/10/19)
Moderator: Gnome
Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
Do not get me wrong in that I thought Noble played well but I could not understand why he was often the further forward of him and Lanzini (who was poor in my view). The one thing Noble is unlikely to do is drop a shoulder and go past 1 or 2 players and yesterday cried out for our attacking central midfielder to do that. For me, attacking wise, the only midfielder who showed up was Yarmolenko and any threat we carried pretty much disappeared with his substitution.
Anderson did not think of running at them until the second half and whilst we created a few chances first half that was more down to Yarmolenko’s vision than any concerted pressure. How the key stats have him playing only one key ball show how valueless they are as a tool if they restrict key pass to the one that immediately creates the shot on goal. Just from the top of my head he was at the centre of the chance Haller missed, was the reason Anderson got his diving header and Lanzini got the shooting chance late on in the first half. In the second the way he delayed the pass to Fredericks to set up one of his crossing chances was pure class.
Generally it reminded me of the bad days of Bilic especially post Payet when we would pass for passings sake but in front of teams never hurting them.
Anderson did not think of running at them until the second half and whilst we created a few chances first half that was more down to Yarmolenko’s vision than any concerted pressure. How the key stats have him playing only one key ball show how valueless they are as a tool if they restrict key pass to the one that immediately creates the shot on goal. Just from the top of my head he was at the centre of the chance Haller missed, was the reason Anderson got his diving header and Lanzini got the shooting chance late on in the first half. In the second the way he delayed the pass to Fredericks to set up one of his crossing chances was pure class.
Generally it reminded me of the bad days of Bilic especially post Payet when we would pass for passings sake but in front of teams never hurting them.
- Wilko1304
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
We saw wildly different things then. Yarmolenko was poor, Noble worked hard pressing from the front, but he was laboured, played too far forward (which is Pellegrini's fault but it doesn't escape from Noble). That we were forced back like that does not show a good midfield performance or creative work.
Gonna add that I think Anderson gets judged to a wildly different standard to Yarmolenko. He was much better.
Last edited by Wilko1304 on Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
I said pre match it wasn’t going to be easy and it wasn’t. There’s a reason Palace have picked up the most amount of points in 2019 after Man City and Liverpool, it might not be pretty but it’s effective. Anybody who thought it would be a walkover for us yesterday and is unhappy needs to have a reality check as in this league, there are only 7 points separating 3rd and 17th after 8 games. So far this season, with the exception of Liverpool and (to an extent) Man City and Watford anybody can beat anybody on a given day. We might aspire to be a team who clearly finishes top 6, but we’re far from that currently.
As for the game. We lacked a plan b when we (especially Lanzini) couldn’t find space in between the defence and midfield. This in turn meant that Haller was left isolated as others dropped deeper to try and get the ball. Whilst it wasn’t a stella first half, we had control and the better chances. In the second-half getting the lead was important, and we looked comfortable but then a mistake by Rice changed the game with just 25 minutes to go. I thought it was Rice’s worst game of the season defensively which is a shame but he’s still learning. Then the palace winner came which you just knew was going to be given when it took that long, small margins but they’re likely to be as we play such a high line and probably why we’ve been involved in more VAR offside goal decisions (against us) than any other team. The subs were like for like and shows we do lack some depth in this squad to change things.
We’ve still had a good start but it’s frustrating not to take our chance yet again when we have it to push on. It changes the Everton game requirements now from being ‘it will be good if we get something’ to ‘we need to go and get something’ too if we harbour finishing high up the table.
As for the game. We lacked a plan b when we (especially Lanzini) couldn’t find space in between the defence and midfield. This in turn meant that Haller was left isolated as others dropped deeper to try and get the ball. Whilst it wasn’t a stella first half, we had control and the better chances. In the second-half getting the lead was important, and we looked comfortable but then a mistake by Rice changed the game with just 25 minutes to go. I thought it was Rice’s worst game of the season defensively which is a shame but he’s still learning. Then the palace winner came which you just knew was going to be given when it took that long, small margins but they’re likely to be as we play such a high line and probably why we’ve been involved in more VAR offside goal decisions (against us) than any other team. The subs were like for like and shows we do lack some depth in this squad to change things.
We’ve still had a good start but it’s frustrating not to take our chance yet again when we have it to push on. It changes the Everton game requirements now from being ‘it will be good if we get something’ to ‘we need to go and get something’ too if we harbour finishing high up the table.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
My impression of our midfield was that when one of Noble or Lanzini went forward the other held deeper and tucked in to the centre. Palace had a very workman-like midfield three and a lot of pace with the three ahead of them - Pellegrini seems to have gone from a 4-2-3-1 where Lanzini was frequently ahead of the ball to a 4-1-4-1 where Lanzini is consistently deep.
Lanzini can still have moments of influencing the game but it’s a waste of his talents imo. Especially yesterday where Noble found more opportunities to get forward (with Zaha not being on his side of the pitch) - indirectly resulting in Lanzini hardly getting forward.
Yesterday (in hindsight) was probably a game to go full on attack and simply try to out score Palace with lots of players in their box. We tried the other approach - trying to be solid, control the game and restrict them so that our better quality would see us through. It wasn’t going to be a game of lots of chances as a result - but we did have the chances to win the game. We were then undone by set pieces at the other end. Didn’t help that we had no game changing options on the bench.
I’m disappointed but in the grand scheme of things you can see that Pellegrini is trying to balance the team (attack/defence) by changing the players roles/responsibilities and position. Downside is that we’re not going to see the swashbuckling attacking football that many expect given the names on the team sheet.
Lanzini can still have moments of influencing the game but it’s a waste of his talents imo. Especially yesterday where Noble found more opportunities to get forward (with Zaha not being on his side of the pitch) - indirectly resulting in Lanzini hardly getting forward.
Yesterday (in hindsight) was probably a game to go full on attack and simply try to out score Palace with lots of players in their box. We tried the other approach - trying to be solid, control the game and restrict them so that our better quality would see us through. It wasn’t going to be a game of lots of chances as a result - but we did have the chances to win the game. We were then undone by set pieces at the other end. Didn’t help that we had no game changing options on the bench.
I’m disappointed but in the grand scheme of things you can see that Pellegrini is trying to balance the team (attack/defence) by changing the players roles/responsibilities and position. Downside is that we’re not going to see the swashbuckling attacking football that many expect given the names on the team sheet.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
The annoyance will subside by midweek, but that goal will have some staying power long after you've forgotten the game. Best goal of the Pellegrini era. I'd argue the best goal Cole's against Wigan. Sublime.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
Must be honest and based on a few games in now rather than hopefully knee jerk
That Fornals fella is like Matt Jarvis and Pablo Barrera had a baby. ****ing hell what does he actually do?!?
I’m sure I am being very harsh and I know he has a pedigree as a youth coming here, AND he’s very young etc. But it genuinely worries me a bit that he looks like nothing. Grady & Cullen showed more promise and I can still see why they went on loan
He needs to show sainc soon as he genuinely looks poor
That Fornals fella is like Matt Jarvis and Pablo Barrera had a baby. ****ing hell what does he actually do?!?
I’m sure I am being very harsh and I know he has a pedigree as a youth coming here, AND he’s very young etc. But it genuinely worries me a bit that he looks like nothing. Grady & Cullen showed more promise and I can still see why they went on loan
He needs to show sainc soon as he genuinely looks poor
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
I mentioned this a few pages back how we could do with a Berkovic/Benayoun type player who could pick the killer pass. Haller would reap the rewards and we would ultimately create more chances.Rays Rock wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:43 pm
If we’re going to use the overlap on the wings that’s great, but from time to time you need to try and break the lines through the middle, otherwise working down the wings becomes far too predictable. Do we have anyone good enough to see that pass through the middle or drop a shoulder and break the lines ?
It appears not at the moment.
- DannyboyDJL
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
Laboured is the perfect word to describe Noble. " Legs have gone" gets people's backs up because he never had pace, but laboured is perfect. Just look at him closing down Townsend for their 2nd goal. Townsend does a step over and Noble ends up about 5 yards the other way. In all honesty, there's only really Rice from our entire midfield who I would trust not to do the exact same.Wilko1304 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:54 am We saw wildly different things then. Yarmolenko was poor, Noble worked hard pressing from the front, but he was laboured, played too far forward (which is Pellegrini's fault but it doesn't escape from Noble). That we were forced back like that does not show a good midfield performance or creative work.
Gonna add that I think Anderson gets judged to a wildly different standard to Yarmolenko. He was much better.
It's not having a go at Noble, but you need pace and energy at this level and we have plenty of room to improve on that in 2 of the 3 midfield positions.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
Up until their pen our keeper didn't have anything to do. One of those games. Very frustrating result given the results earlier on.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
in short palace worked harder . got behind the ball to defend well and has a pacy out ball with Zaha, i dislike Zaha he is a **** but that is how they play and it is effective.
The individual parts of their side are average but collectively good.
We do not work hard enough and are slow and for the most part clueless going forward , millions of passes that actually created anything.
We miss Antonio for pace and we need another like him in the side Haller will thrive from a fast moving front 3 .
The individual parts of their side are average but collectively good.
We do not work hard enough and are slow and for the most part clueless going forward , millions of passes that actually created anything.
We miss Antonio for pace and we need another like him in the side Haller will thrive from a fast moving front 3 .
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
I was thinking of that earlier. Where are the goals coming from in general? Yarmo has taken the pressure of massively, but apart from him and Haller, the only other scorer from open play is Cresswell.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
Seconded. To his credit, he looked to get the ball forward the majority of the time and played some lovely passes during the game. More of that we need, a lot of our players were passing sideways and backwards too much especially in the 1st half.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
When it was rumoured that we were interested in signing Yacine Brahimi in the summer a lot on here were saying we didn't need him - I argued that we did - or at least someone of his ilk - someone who can run past their man while retaining the ball . Yes , we have Antonio [ or not at the moment ] but having just One Plan B leaves you open - we have Diangana and Holland but no oven ready wingers just now .61dicksey wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:15 am in short palace worked harder . got behind the ball to defend well and has a pacy out ball with Zaha, i dislike Zaha he is a **** but that is how they play and it is effective.
The individual parts of their side are average but collectively good.
We do not work hard enough and are slow and for the most part clueless going forward , millions of passes that actually created anything.
We miss Antonio for pace and we need another like him in the side Haller will thrive from a fast moving front 3 .
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
I agree that nobody had a shocker, but as a team, we didn't play well enough to win.the pink palermo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 7:56 pm Fmob, we lose a game and the Noble haters are out in force immediately ?
He played well today . . Again. Or should i say, yet again.
Nobody had a shocker today, nobody.
Sometimes you just lose.
We looked quite slow and predictable for much of the game and Palace looked fairly comfortable at dealing with our attacking threat. Teams like palace will dig in and wait for mistakes .luckily for them we give away 2 silly/cheap free kicks that lead to goals.
If we have any ambition of being top 8 then we need to wise up a bit lively.
Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
Pellegrini mentioned earlier in the week that Rice's form meant that Noble could play further forward.
Problem that I saw yesterday was that Noble was playing too far forward , often closing down the keeper as has been pointed out.He hasnt got the pace for that and clearly not where he is best deployed. Lanzini on the other hand was playing far too deep. We need Lanzini playing just in behind and supporting Haller and linking up the attack.
Problem that I saw yesterday was that Noble was playing too far forward , often closing down the keeper as has been pointed out.He hasnt got the pace for that and clearly not where he is best deployed. Lanzini on the other hand was playing far too deep. We need Lanzini playing just in behind and supporting Haller and linking up the attack.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
I don't disagree, i wrote before the game yesterday that i saw no likelyhood of the goal fest many were forecasting bearing in mind we only scored 10 goals prior to yesterday whilst Palace had conceded only 7 goals.westham,eggyandchips wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:28 am I agree that nobody had a shocker, but as a team, we didn't play well enough to win.
We looked quite slow and predictable for much of the game and Palace looked fairly comfortable at dealing with our attacking threat. Teams like palace will dig in and wait for mistakes .luckily for them we give away 2 silly/cheap free kicks that lead to goals.
If we have any ambition of being top 8 then we need to wise up a bit lively.
Roy " two banks of four" Hodgson is not going to send out any side that is easy to beat. I recall a game when he managed Fulham against us, they had a player sent off, yet played an incredibly disciplined structure to deny us space to create.
We lacked a decent tempo yesterday, but credit the opposition for that, by working hard they can deny you that.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
And that is one of the frustrating things about watching us play this season. When we can't break a defence down at least have a pop from distance, make their keeper work. He could fumble, and if Haller is waiting to pounce it at least gives us an opportunity. Feels like we're trying to walk the ball into the net too much.
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
We are too slow. We also aren’t that good. I don’t get the Fornals signing when we had Lanzini and Jack. He might be good but wasn’t what we needed
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Re: ⚽ West Ham United v Crystal Palace: Match Thread
Too slow? That team yesterday consisted of Diop, Rice, Fredericks, Cresswell, Anderson, Yarmolenko, Lanzini and Haller who isn't a slouch. More than enough pace in the side and many quick thinkers on the ball normally too.
We also are good, just not a typically good day at the office yesterday. Not awful, not great just bit under par, it happens over the course of a long season. Since City, we've been on a really good run of form and results, narrowly losing to them on a controversial decision isn't as bad it seems to some right now. The most important thing is the positive signs are still there and had Five not handled the ball, we should have been well on our way to another 3 points sitting in 3rd place.