Winston Reid

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Up the Junction
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:56 pm

Marky wrote:I thought contract was signed under Sam so would expire before 2023?
See the (KUMB) menu, above. Stats - Contract Info.

http://www.kumb.com/stats_contracts.php

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stu1
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by stu1 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:58 pm

Sloop John B wrote: Consider how it might have played out...

The club offers 3-4 years...

Reid considering this may be his last contract say's I'll take 6 or I'm off...

Best defender at the club walks out the door for free signs for rival .

Board say... his wage demands weren't crazy but we couldn't agree on the length of the contract...

Fans say yes that's ok....totally reasonable business decision...carry on...
The problem with this theory, is it is highly unlikely anyone would have offered a 6 year deal.

Most of the top teams only offer 1 year contract extensions to players over 30, so where is the precedent for offering a 28/29 year old a 6 year deal?

HammerAl
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by HammerAl » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:00 pm

Winston at his very best was fantastic. Such a shame injuries have caught up with him. Possibly our best centre half of the last 10-15 years when he was fully fit?

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LeonRivers
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by LeonRivers » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:01 pm

James P wrote: You can't sell them on though because if they are not the same player at 33 that they were at 29 then no buying club will match their wages and the player is unlikely to accept a pay cut.

You put players on long contracts on the upward arc of their career trajectory. Get Rice on a six year deal by all means. But you don't say to a 29 year old "this is what we think you're worth today and we'll pay you this until you're 35". It's a deal with absolutely no upside and lots of downside.
On the flip side, if I’m a 29 y/o player, one of the best at my club and have the opportunity to move to a bigger/better club I’m certainly not signing your contract offer of fringe player wages suitable for a 34 year old. This is what I want. Pay me it or I go to Arsenal and leave you to deal with the fan backlash.

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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:04 pm

Whilst six years was probably a bit long, it is only hindsight that suggests that

Lets say he didn't get injured and gave us another two years of service until 2021, but then couldn't get in the team

We probably would have been able to sell him on because due to wage inflation another premier league club would likely have no problems matching 2017 wages in 2021

A fully fit Winston Reid would still get in my first eleven, and with Rice in front of him he would finally have a decent DM in front of him

LEGEND

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James P
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by James P » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:21 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Whilst six years was probably a bit long, it is only hindsight that suggests that

Lets say he didn't get injured and gave us another two years of service until 2021, but then couldn't get in the team

We probably would have been able to sell him on because due to wage inflation another premier league club would likely have no problems matching 2017 wages in 2021
Whilst wage inflation is a factor it's not at the rate that in 2021 a 33 year old unable to get in the West Ham side can command the same wages as a 29 year old team leader did in 2017.

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Aceface
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Aceface » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:21 pm

I assumed the entire reason from the club's side for arranging these longer contracts is to lock in a relatively lower wage over the course of that period.

The inflation over the course of a six year contract is astronomical in the current environment.

goa127
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by goa127 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:35 pm

when reid unexpectedly signed a new contract most people I knew were overjoyed. It proved to be a bad deal in hindsight because of his long term injury problems, but who could have foreseen this? His injury record previously was pretty normal, and he'd still be first choice if fit. I don't really understand the animosity towards the player who for several years was our stand out defender.

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S-H
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by S-H » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm

goa127 wrote: I don't really understand the animosity towards the player who for several years was our stand out defender.
Where's the animosity towards Reid?

:eh:

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Aceface
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Aceface » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:42 pm

Must be doubly annoying for him watching on given we finally have a quality keeper, an actual specialist right back who can defend, and Declan Rice screening. Rather than the thin gruel of having to cope with combinations like Antonio/Nordveit/Randolph etc....

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James P
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by James P » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:43 pm

goa127 wrote:when reid unexpectedly signed a new contract most people I knew were overjoyed. It proved to be a bad deal in hindsight because of his long term injury problems, but who could have foreseen this? His injury record previously was pretty normal, and he'd still be first choice if fit. I don't really understand the animosity towards the player who for several years was our stand out defender.
If you look back in this thread lots of people called the new contract a bad deal back in 2017 so hindsight has nothing to do with it. Even without injury problems I think it is a bad deal for the reasons I’ve said above.

I have no issue with Reid at all. But a bad deal is a bad deal and the club needs to learn and not make similar mistakes in the future.

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LeonRivers
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by LeonRivers » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:45 pm

goa127 wrote:I don't really understand the animosity towards the player who for several years was our stand out defender.
It’s just another stick with which to beat the owners. We have new best players, so we can boo the old ones now.

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Re: Winston Reid

Post by goa127 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:46 pm

Where's the animosity towards Reid?

:eh:[/quote]


A lot of posts seem to link him with AC and to infer that he's somehow to blame for such a long lay-off. While ther may be some justification for suggesting that Carrol's lifestyle choices contribute to his injury problems (I don't know if this is true), the idea that Winston is laughing all the way to the bank seems unfair. I imagine he'd rather be playing right now. To me he's been a massive loss in the last year and would love to see him fit again

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Crossd_Hammrs
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Crossd_Hammrs » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:54 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:We probably would have been able to sell him on because due to wage inflation another premier league club would likely have no problems matching 2017 wages in 2021
If I was sigining a long deal I'd want an annual pay rise.

I suppose getting the player to sign one long deal instead of two smaller ones is that you only have to pay signing fees and agent fees once.
And I've read those fees are typically spread out over the duration of a contract, so it would thus be a lower weekly payment.
However, should we choose to sell him, wouldn't we have more of his contract to buy out / longer loyalty bonus.
But I think being on a long contract means other clubs expect to have to offer more to buy him / unsettle him (wasn't he subject to a few transfer rumours at the time?).

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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:01 pm

James P wrote: Whilst wage inflation is a factor it's not at the rate that in 2021 a 33 year old unable to get in the West Ham side can command the same wages as a 29 year old team leader did in 2017.
if he had performed as expected, when signing the contract, for 3 or 4 seasons, a premier league club would be able to match those wages in 2021 - let's assume 75k-80k??

Experienced, commanding CB with 300 odd games. he would be in demand IMHO

He might also have been up for taking a drop to carry on playing. Who knows?

I agree six years was a bit long, but only by one or two years

If this rumour is true [which i really hope it isn't] i hope the focus of the comments on his retirement will be more about him as a tremendous West Ham player and not dragging up the contract stuff. He deserves far more than to be remembered for the contract he signed

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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Cockneyboy311 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:09 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
If this rumour is true [which i really hope it isn't] i hope the focus of the comments on his retirement will be more about him as a tremendous West Ham player and not dragging up the contract stuff. He deserves far more than to be remembered for the contract he signed
:thup:

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S-H
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by S-H » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:13 pm

I love Reid, I do, and he'll rightly go down in history for scoring the last ever goal at the Boleyn. I can't help but think he was never as good as some people are making him out to be.

Always seemed to lack a bit of bottle, went missing a fair bit and his best performances were few and far between.

I do hope his playing days aren't over, because he could still be a useful squad member.

I've always preferred gingers myself.

*dons tin hat.

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Aceface
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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Aceface » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:29 pm

S-H wrote:I love Reid, I do, and he'll rightly go down in history for scoring the last ever goal at the Boleyn. I can't help but think he was never as good as some people are making him out to be.

Always seemed to lack a bit of bottle, went missing a fair bit and his best performances were few and far between.
Dude is a legend. Obviously not in the Bonzo/Trev meaning of the word but in being woven into the modern history of the club – which doesn’t preclude being up and down in terms of performance. There’s probably only Noble and Parker ahead of him in terms of who could make similar claims over the past decade, maybe even decade and a half if you're feeling generous.

If anyone else, let alone a defender, ever utterly owns the Manchester clubs over a two year period on their home turf, or belts in a winner against Millwall, or is an ever-present in a promotion campaign, keeps a clean sheet for a victory at Anfield, scores in a 3-0 win at WHL, wins a play-off final, scores an injury time winner from outside the box against Sunderland when the club is in the relegation zone, let alone sees off the Boleyn, then they’ll be doing well in terms of being stitched into the latter-day story of the club. Or at very least deserve a better epitaph than 'went missing a bit.'

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Re: Winston Reid

Post by hammerman11 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:33 pm

one of our better defenders in recent history. hope he is not finished but not looking good. any idea when he is back ?????????????

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Re: Winston Reid

Post by Knighter10WHU » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:36 pm

Aceface :thup:

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