✍ Manuel Lanzini
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- steveyrockstar
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
I'm amazed again at how quickly someone's stock changes. When he picked up that injury recently, I distinctly remember people saying how great he'd been so far this season, arguably our best player, and that he would be a big miss. I distinctly remember that because I said that at least we're well covered in his position. I'm sure you only need to look back a way in this very thread. Fast forward a few weeks, and Lanzini is being dissed by the masses, accused of being ineffective, overrated and, in some cases, not even trying.
I missed the games against Palace and Everton, so I'm presuming he must've been really bad.
I missed the games against Palace and Everton, so I'm presuming he must've been really bad.
- Rocketron
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
Very pertinent.simon1982 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:18 pm I’m not digging him out. It is Quite obvious that he is being asked to play miles deeper when he is on the pitch. He is to far away to link play plus i feel we took his understanding with arnie for granted. They buzzed off each other. I’m struggling to see who his link up partner will be as most of our players stand and watch him when he has the ball.
Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
You only need to go back 2 pages mate. It’s pretty much the same with every player. You could get some cracking quotes from the Antonio thread!steveyrockstar wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 5:53 pm I'm amazed again at how quickly someone's stock changes. When he picked up that injury recently, I distinctly remember people saying how great he'd been so far this season, arguably our best player, and that he would be a big miss. I distinctly remember that because I said that at least we're well covered in his position. I'm sure you only need to look back a way in this very thread. Fast forward a few weeks, and Lanzini is being dissed by the masses, accused of being ineffective, overrated and, in some cases, not even trying.
I missed the games against Palace and Everton, so I'm presuming he must've been really bad.
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
His heat map against Everton looks more like he was playing left back than left centre mid, let alone central attacking midfielder:
That's a really strange one, I must admit.
I hope we get to see him back to his best - I don't know whether that means we need to change formation for him or he just needs to find form, though. Certainly, we are a more creative, front foot, team with him in it and playing well than we are with him out or playing poorly.
- Jameslegend
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
He's looked his best when he played close to Payet or Arnautovic for us, he needs to be in that final third playing off of Anderson, Haller or Yarmolenko and if he does click with them we will hopefully see him back to his best. Our problems seem to be much more than just one player at the moment though.
Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
He was certainly far too deep, Yorks.
I actually thought Fornals was the one player who got close to Haller, albeit briefly, at the start of the second half against Everton. Then got hauled off...
I actually thought Fornals was the one player who got close to Haller, albeit briefly, at the start of the second half against Everton. Then got hauled off...
- Billydinho
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
I feel like Lanzini is the fall guy here.
Anderson can't be bothered, Fornals looks a fish out of water and Noble has gone off the boil.
So where does Lanzini play? Does he drop in to collect it from Anderson? Does he sit deeper to tick the ball from defence to attack? Does he push on to sit behind Haller?
Lanzini is probably our best player technically. He should be given a role and everyone else play round him. I feel like he's being shoe-horned into the team, similar to Joe Cole for England.
Anderson can't be bothered, Fornals looks a fish out of water and Noble has gone off the boil.
So where does Lanzini play? Does he drop in to collect it from Anderson? Does he sit deeper to tick the ball from defence to attack? Does he push on to sit behind Haller?
Lanzini is probably our best player technically. He should be given a role and everyone else play round him. I feel like he's being shoe-horned into the team, similar to Joe Cole for England.
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
not sure what pelle is doing with him but when you see noble further forward and lanzini in front of the CBs something is wrong. he is out of form and playing him out of position is not going to help.
I cant see him starting this weekend as we need a fighter in midfield to assist rice and noble. so Snodgrass in for me.
the forward three are Anderson(last chance) haller (poor at moment) and yarmolenko ( playing well but doesn't get back quickly, has a goal threat)
so lanzini will be on the bench and may come on for snod .
his best position is surely as the attacking 10 or on the left high up the field.
he is a class player and is having a dip in form. sure he will be back soon if pelle plays him in his right position not as a DM !
I cant see him starting this weekend as we need a fighter in midfield to assist rice and noble. so Snodgrass in for me.
the forward three are Anderson(last chance) haller (poor at moment) and yarmolenko ( playing well but doesn't get back quickly, has a goal threat)
so lanzini will be on the bench and may come on for snod .
his best position is surely as the attacking 10 or on the left high up the field.
he is a class player and is having a dip in form. sure he will be back soon if pelle plays him in his right position not as a DM !
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
To be honest, I've long been a proponent of putting Lanzini in as one of a midfield trio with Rice and Noble (or similar) alongside him. I think it works and could be a really balanced trio. I'd like to see us persist with it rather than abandon it on the back of a few poorer performances, but a bit part of it is making sure Lanzini can have some license to head forward.
When you look at him at his best, he's a souped up version of Snodgrass in that position - tackling and harrying, picking the ball up deeper and springing a pass out wide or through the opposition to the forward for running on to. He does everything that Snodgrass did last weekend better than him in an offensive way - when on form and allowed some license to do it.
The issue is, we're not getting onto Haller's knockdowns - they're simply not finding a second man - and as a result every time we take that route we end up inviting pressure on ourselves. And that's why Lanzini is having to play deeper (as shown in the Everton heatmap above) than he should be.
Is there a way to fix that? Well, one is what people have already said - get Yarmolenko and Anderson tighter to Haller to win the second ball, rather than out wide. The other is to flip the midfield triangle and revert to a 4-2-3-1 that gets Lanzini physically in a higher starting position so he can be winning those second balls from Haller.
Snodgrass' goal last weekend should be a blueprint for our bread and butter goals going forward - even though it wasn't Haller that won the ball, his presence was enough to create a knock down. We had Yarmolenko available to pick that second ball up, and then Snodgrass running on from midfield to collect from him and run through on goal.
When you look at him at his best, he's a souped up version of Snodgrass in that position - tackling and harrying, picking the ball up deeper and springing a pass out wide or through the opposition to the forward for running on to. He does everything that Snodgrass did last weekend better than him in an offensive way - when on form and allowed some license to do it.
The issue is, we're not getting onto Haller's knockdowns - they're simply not finding a second man - and as a result every time we take that route we end up inviting pressure on ourselves. And that's why Lanzini is having to play deeper (as shown in the Everton heatmap above) than he should be.
Is there a way to fix that? Well, one is what people have already said - get Yarmolenko and Anderson tighter to Haller to win the second ball, rather than out wide. The other is to flip the midfield triangle and revert to a 4-2-3-1 that gets Lanzini physically in a higher starting position so he can be winning those second balls from Haller.
Snodgrass' goal last weekend should be a blueprint for our bread and butter goals going forward - even though it wasn't Haller that won the ball, his presence was enough to create a knock down. We had Yarmolenko available to pick that second ball up, and then Snodgrass running on from midfield to collect from him and run through on goal.
Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
This touches on something I've mentioned before. We have too many players that want to drop deep and get on the ball rather than runners getting beyond Haller. Makes us easy to defend against.YorksHammer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:09 am Snodgrass' goal last weekend should be a blueprint for our bread and butter goals going forward - even though it wasn't Haller that won the ball, his presence was enough to create a knock down. We had Yarmolenko available to pick that second ball up, and then Snodgrass running on from midfield to collect from him and run through on goal.
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
agree we play too much in front of teams with little movement or pace. just sideways and backwards. crab football !
- hammer1975
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
Agree that’s how we’re playing. Do wonder whether the players wanting to or it’s instructions to make us tougher to score against with a deeper midfield.
Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
This is purely a guess but I feel it's because the players are low on confidence and that's how they naturally play. Especially for someone like Lanzini.hammer1975 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:41 pm Agree that’s how we’re playing. Do wonder whether the players wanting to or it’s instructions to make us tougher to score against with a deeper midfield.
- hammer1975
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
Not convinced I’ve ever seen Lanzini play as deep as he is currently Patito - even in the bad days of Bilic.
I much prefer him coming in from wide positions personally anyway.
I much prefer him coming in from wide positions personally anyway.
- psychoscoredthelot
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
broken Collarbone - having an operation today
he hasnt had much luck has he - get well soon
he hasnt had much luck has he - get well soon
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
Gutted.psychoscoredthelot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:56 am broken Collarbone - having an operation today
he hasnt had much luck has he - get well soon
He was just playing himself back to form at the start of the season got a knock had a few weeks off, came back into a team devoid of confidence and struggling for points. Had a lot foisted onto him as the man to turn around the season but wasn't up to speed and frankly Ronaldo would have struggled to turn that team around. Now this. Especially after missing the whole of last season. Poor b*stard (not financially but you know what I mean).
The weekend was deeply depressing but this makes it much worse.
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
Hopefully it's a routine successful surgery, get well soon ladpsychoscoredthelot wrote: ↑Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:56 am Broken Collarbone - having an operation today
he hasnt had much luck has he - get well soon
- Sloop John B
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Re: Manuel Lanzini (New Contract Signed)
I wonder if the reason Anderson gets so much criticism is because he's alway on the ball and therefore visible - so you can see him having bad game.Billydinho wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:37 pm I feel like Lanzini is the fall guy here.
Anderson can't be bothered,
Lanzini just goes missing for large parts of the game.
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