Javier Hernandez Signs

Does exactly what it says on the tin - the forum for football-related discussion.

Moderators: chalks, the pink palermo, -DL-, Gnome, Rio, bristolhammerfc

Post Reply
User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 15222
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by MB » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:01 am

Rio wrote:Still getting an incredibly easy ride from those who don’t go.

Another shocking performance yesterday. But hey. It’s a player with a big reputation who everyone wanted.
I think you are failing to appreciate the quality of a player whose agent can issue a “come and get me” plea resulting in a loan offer from Turkey...

He is a relic of a bygone era. Only certain clubs like Man City can carry an out and out striker and he isn’t good enough for those clubs. Another vanity signing which hasn’t worked out rather than buying what we need.

Yes he has scored five goals, but we got two points in those four games. We’ve won two league games where he started and in both (Huddersfield and Swansea) the goals were scored after he’d been subbed off.

User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 29490
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Marking Us With The Sight Of What We Might Have Known

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by prophet:marginal » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:32 am

I think that the suggestion that he's the wrong player for our set up is valid.

But, looking at the alternatives, the worry is that I would still back him (working with a fit Arnie and Lanzini) to score more than any of

Ayew
Sakho,
Carroll,
Antonio, or
Martinez.

Him getting on the end of chances may mean the difference between survival and the drop.

User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 15222
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by MB » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:20 am

prophet:marginal wrote: (working with a fit Arnie and Lanzini)
But that is exactly why he is the wrong player. There isn’t a formation which fits all three of those in without compromising the midfield and/or the defence.

We cannot carry three out and out attacking players with the current options available elsewhere in the team.

The spine of our team is shocking.

User avatar
il_martello_di_genovesi
Posts: 10788
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:11 pm
Location: genova è solo blucerchiata.

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:32 am

Rio wrote:Still getting an incredibly easy ride from those who don’t go.

Another shocking performance yesterday. But hey. It’s a player with a big reputation who everyone wanted.
Still plenty of us that go that can see he has no real chance to perform in this team either. His recent starts have been in cup matches that we haven't shown any real desire to win. This ends up with Hernandez upfront on his own with no service. He shouldn't be having to drop deep to pick up the ball.

He's the wrong fit because we are a joke of a club. Who is the right fit? However we play there's a problem somewhere. We either have a midfield that doesn't function, exposed CB's etc...The way we set up at the moment, and I praise Moyes for managing to get points on the board with the squad he has had, gives Hernandez no chance to play at his best.

He'll leave anyway and be replaced by a cheap random punt and the money will go into their pockets, so makes no difference whether he's coated or praised.

Crouchend_Hammer
Posts: 13177
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Forest Gate

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:38 am

MB wrote: But that is exactly why he is the wrong player. There isn’t a formation which fits all three of those in without compromising the midfield and/or the defence.

We cannot carry three out and out attacking players with the current options available elsewhere in the team.

The spine of our team is shocking.
WIth any kind of decent coaching and organisation we should be able to accomodate three 'attack minded' players. That does leave room for seven defensive playets. We have done for the vast majority of games this season, including a number of our beat perfrmances

User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 29490
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: Marking Us With The Sight Of What We Might Have Known

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by prophet:marginal » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:08 pm

MB wrote:
The spine of our team is shocking.
I fully agree, there.

But in my view, the team is sufficiently balanced, if all fit, to be set up

Back three (my strongest: Ogbonna,together with Ginge and Rice)

Middle four (Zabaleta-Noble-Mario-Cresswell)

Central playmaker/between the lines: Lanzini

Arnie--------------------
-------------Hernandez

User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 49816
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:26 pm

Imo, that's only balanced insofar as players are in positions.

There is no pace or physical presence where it needs to be.

The wing backs are amongst the slowest around, central midfield is lightweight (Mario is an AM) and Arnie would have to carry the front 5 physically.

Moyes has done a very good papering job over the multitude of cracks and correctly identified a lack of application and competitiveness as a real problem for us.

It's no good being a decent technical player, if you never have the ball - so the team needs populating with plenty of players who are up to the fight for the ball, thus enabling the technicians to flourish once its won.

Personally, I don't count Hernandez as a technician. I've found his link play to be surprisingly poor.

He falls to the floor at the drop of a hat (half expected), and also has a tendency to overly delay a pass and get caught on the ball (unexpected).

User avatar
MB
Cricket's Darren Anderton
Posts: 15222
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:13 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by MB » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:42 pm

But CH, using Kouyate or Masuaku in an advanced role is completely different to playing Hernandez with two other out and out attackers.

I understand and agree with your point in terms of it should be possible, but I do not see it with the quality we have in central midfield and at wing back.

It will always be 532 rather than 343.

User avatar
IronworksDave
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:25 am

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by IronworksDave » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:54 am

He's just here collecting his salary .... plenty of strikers have managed decent numbers playing in far worse sides than ours .... watch him play .... he hardly ever gets away from his marker, compare that to top striker like Kane or Aguero who even though playing for better sides still work their socks off getting open .... or a poacher like Defoe or Heskey, plaing most of their careers at lesser clubs but still banging in the goals .... when he does receive the ball his first touch is often shocking, which for a supposedly technical player is a huge surprise, even when he does get the ball unless he has a route to goal, and as he's normally just standing next to his marker that is rare due to his total lack of mobility, he then either ends up passing it to nobody or falling on his arse ....

Sure he needs to get the ball more ... but if he doesn't put in the work-rate that won't happen .... we got sold a lemon, obviously other clubs knew, and now that lazy feckin' lemon is demanding an 'escape' .... well f*** him ......
Last edited by IronworksDave on Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
thejackhammer
Posts: 8490
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 11:49 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by thejackhammer » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:00 am

Last season in three consecutive 0-0s we all watched Calleri fluff chance after chance, if only he could finish we cried!

So we went out and bought a finisher, someone to put away the chances we were creating and yet the chances haven’t been coming.

The key difference? Calleri worked hard.

User avatar
The Sherriff
Posts: 2242
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 1:31 pm
Location: South Twyford
Contact:

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by The Sherriff » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:07 am

Not for the first time this season, his lack of effort and application on Saturday was poor.

His attitude stinks.

Crouchend_Hammer
Posts: 13177
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Forest Gate

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:26 am

Even if he plays the limuted amoubt ov minutes he did in first half of season, he is probably going to end up on double digit top flight league goals

For someone who is supposedly completely unsuitable for us, doesn't care etc, that isn't too bad

When was the last time we had a striker achieve that?

hammerman11
Posts: 5566
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:01 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by hammerman11 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:32 am

get rid of him lazy slow poor attitude and falls over at the slightest touch. sell him for 15m
ayew going to Swansea for around 15m get dembele in for 25m

swerley
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:12 pm
Location: Nazareth, Pennsylvania

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by swerley » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:57 am

Watching Hernandez and Martinez failings reminds me 100% of watching Zaza and Callieri last year (and most of the over two dozen G&S-era strikers) - which leads me to believe it cannot be all their fault for lack of success. Its the midfield where it all breaks down both offensively and defensively. Saturday was a great example of overall lacking in that area.

User avatar
ironsjh
Posts: 2214
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:36 pm
Location: Behind You.

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by ironsjh » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:00 pm

He started off with a reasonable effort I thought, chasing down defenders, but that all finished when Grigg scored, had a good moment in the second half starting the move that eventually played in Mario. Don't think it's quite a lack of effort, more he gives up too easily.

User avatar
Cockneyboy311
Posts: 8249
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:23 pm
Location: Fascination Street

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Cockneyboy311 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:00 pm

thejackhammer wrote:Last season in three consecutive 0-0s we all watched Calleri fluff chance after chance, if only he could finish we cried!

So we went out and bought a finisher, someone to put away the chances we were creating and yet the chances haven’t been coming.

The key difference? Calleri worked hard.
Yep. One thing i couldn't fault Calleri on was his attitude.

User avatar
bubbles1966
Posts: 49816
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:01 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by bubbles1966 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:07 pm

If he plays like he did tonight on a regular basis there will be nothing to complain about.

User avatar
uptonparkhurst
Posts: 3763
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:01 pm
Location: The World Wide Web - where men are men,women are men,and children are the Metropolitan Police

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by uptonparkhurst » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:18 pm

His movement in the box for that header was brilliant - shame he couldn't direct it.Unfortunately, the team doesn't dominate possession enough for him to be a prolific player for us (imo, of course).

User avatar
NW5hammer
Posts: 860
Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by NW5hammer » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:24 pm

he did well tonight. Won a lot more possession than Carroll ever does from some appalling service. Linked up well with Mario. Won a penalty and nearly put that header away. Under the circumstances of very little support he seemed willing. OK he's not strong enough to bully defenders but he kept them busy. I still haven't worked out how he fits into our 'system' but you see that if we can get the ball into the box he will fashion something.

User avatar
Colours never run
Posts: 15176
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"

Re: Javier Hernandez Signs

Post by Colours never run » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:40 pm

Thought he had a good game in general tonight, linking up well with Mario in particular. Shame Mario couldn't put the finishing touch on Hernandez clever header back into his path to shoot. They also linked up well for the goal when Hernandez initially started the move off before Mario returned the favour by putting Hernandez in and Hernandez did great to earn a deserved penalty which naturally got buried by Noble. He also showed quality movement again being busy in and around the box, only real criticicism I've got was being flat footed when Tomkins did extremely well to clear the ball off Hernandez toe in the 1st half. He looks better and more involved with genuine quality like Mario supporting him finally with some much needed service.

The Penalty also reminded me he'd likely be on 7 goals if Noble wasn't the designated penalty taker although I wouldn't change that for anything whilst Nolbes on the pitch.

Post Reply