Manuel Pellegrini: West Ham United’s 17th manager

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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Burnley Hammer »

------------------Roberto----------------------

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Fredericks-------------------------Masuaku

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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Sloop John B »

Ironing Board wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:09 pm It’s a crude measurement that does not tell the whole story, especially in the modern game. Even the likes of Fergie would struggle to win silverware in this era without one of the top teams due to the concentration of talent.
Granted it doesn't tell the story you want tell... a story where the best managers in the game pootle around mid table and the relegation zone and dine out on the few good seasons they had a decade ago. :wink:

You're right in that Fergie would struggle to win silverware without being at one of the top teams... But Fergie WOULD be at one of the top teams because of the calibre of manager he is and when at that top team he'd win silverware because he's a top manager.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

Sloop John B wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:16 pm Granted it doesn't tell the story you want tell... a story where the best managers in the game pootle around mid table and the relegation zone and dine out on the few good seasons they had a decade ago. :wink:

You're right in that Fergie would struggle to win silverware without being at one of the top teams... But Fergie WOULD be at one of the top teams because of the calibre of manager he is and when at that top team he'd win silverware because he's a top manager.
What tosh - the British managers have been at a major disadvantage for years because the tops clubs always go for foreign managers. I guess it makes sense in a way, as two thirds of the league is made up of foreign players. Probably more than that when you look at first elevens only.

As if anyone would bring in the Aberdeen manager nowadays. It just wouldn't happen, The best Ferguson could hope for now would be win a cup with Aberdeen and work your way up from League One or The Championship.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

S-H wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:22 pmWhy?
Because that midfield is truly abysmal!
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Wilko1304 »

Aberdeen werent a tiny club then (or now) so it certainly wasn’t working his way up the leagues.

British managers haven’t earned their shot. Rodgers did well but there was this one guy who had a go with a big club, the champions, and absolutely shat the bed. There were talks of his training methods being outdated and his managerial style underwhelming for players who wanted to dominate games. Moyes the pity, I can’t remember his name...
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

Wilko1304 wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:02 pm Aberdeen werent a tiny club then (or now) so it certainly wasn’t working his way up the leagues.

British managers haven’t earned their shot. Rodgers did well but there was this one guy who had a go with a big club, the champions, and absolutely shat the bed. There were talks of his training methods being outdated and his managerial style underwhelming for players who wanted to dominate games. Moyes the pity, I can’t remember his name...
How exactly did Rodgers do well? His team was carried by Suarez, who was a Dalglish signing. And Moyes actually has the second best win ratio out of the post-Fergie managers, behind only Mourinho. Problem Man Utd has goes back years, with the rot setting in under Fergie, who bailed as his team reached its expiration date.

And how can British managers prove they are worth top jobs if they never get them? Lampard is doing reasonably well, so it is clearly a bias against domestic managers.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Patito »

:lol:

Man Utd
06/07 - 1st
07/08 - 1st
08/09 - 1st
09/10 - 2nd
10/11 - 1st
11/12 - 2nd
12/13 - 1st

Enter Moyes.

13/14 - 7th
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

Patito wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:07 pm :lol:

Man Utd
06/07 - 1st
07/08 - 1st
08/09 - 1st
09/10 - 2nd
10/11 - 1st
11/12 - 2nd
12/13 - 1st

Enter Moyes.

13/14 - 7th
And what did Van Gaal do as soon as he arrived? Gutted the squad because it was not fit for purpose. Note the fact pretty much the entire defense was released.

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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Patito »

That’s all well and good but it doesn’t negate the below! :D

Patito wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:07 pm :lol:

Man Utd
06/07 - 1st
07/08 - 1st
08/09 - 1st
09/10 - 2nd
10/11 - 1st
11/12 - 2nd
12/13 - 1st

Enter Moyes.

13/14 - 7th
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

Patito wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:50 pm That’s all well and good but it doesn’t negate the below! :D
Of course it doesn't, but it makes the drop off understandable. That team was done. It was a similar dropoff to the great AC Milan team, which just seemed to suddenly collapse.

Getting back on topic, perhaps Pellers could have done better there, but he would also have been hampered by the lack of a central defense.

As it is, he is here, and is struggling to get the most out of what he has. The fact he is hampered by a poor squad is partly of his own making, so it is a double failure
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Wilko1304 »

“Moyes did well” - reality = 7th.

“How did Rodgers do well?” - reality 2nd.

We’ve got a manager there whose failures are down to the title winning squad he inherited, and one whose successes don’t count because a previous manager bought Suarez. Ferguson left Manchester United in first. Dalglish left Liverpool in 8th.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

Wilko1304 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:02 am “Moyes did well” - reality = 7th.

“How did Rodgers do well?” - reality 2nd.

We’ve got a manager there whose failures are down to the title winning squad he inherited, and one whose successes don’t count because a previous manager bought Suarez. Ferguson left Manchester United in first. Dalglish left Liverpool in 8th.
Actually, you are missing all of the context:

"Brendan Rodgers: Liverpool boss sacked after Merseyside derby. Rodgers is the first Liverpool manager since the 1950s not to win a trophy in his first three seasons. He finished seventh, second and sixth in the Premier League. Liverpool spent about £80m in the summer as Rodgers signed Christian Benteke, Danny Ings, Roberto Firmino, Nathaniel Clyne and Joe Gomez.

"Rodgers was dismissed after Sunday's 1-1 draw at Everton, which left the Reds 10th in the Premier League, but the decision was made before the game.

"At the heart of Rodgers's demise at Liverpool was a failed, flawed recruitment policy that saw nearly £292m spent since the 42-year-old's arrival in the summer of 2012 - but most of the world-class talent he possessed walk out of the door."

He also thought it was a good idea to play a reserve side away to Real Madrid in the CHAMPIONS LEAGUE.
Last edited by Ironing Board on Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

I wish I could stop accidentally hitting quote instead of edit!
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Patito »

Ironing Board wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:01 am Of course it doesn't, but it makes the drop off understandable. That team was done. It was a similar dropoff to the great AC Milan team, which just seemed to suddenly collapse.
No it doesn’t. It’s not just a coincidence that the season Moyes joined, they went from champions to mid table. He’s just not a big team manager. Mid table teams with a small budget who don’t care for the style of football. That’s his calling, he does a fine job there.

Milan’s decline was a bit more gradual too. After winning the scudetto they finished 2nd then 3rd before dropping off so the signs were there. You don’t seem to care about facts though to be fair.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Patito »

Ironing Board wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:18 am Actually, you are missing all of the context:
None of that negates what Wilko was saying nor does it paint Moyes in a better light.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by BubbleBoy »

---------------------Martin--------‐--------------
Fredericks---Diop---Ogbonna--Masuaku
------------------Rice----Snodgrass------------
-------‐-----------------Fornals----‐-------------------
Yarmolenko--------------------------Anderson
---‐-----------------------Haller-------------------------

Lets try playing players in their correct position, with a very simple plan, in which each player understands his role.
Full backs to provide width and pace.
Rice and Snodgrass to sit, work their nuts off and cover the fullbacks when were in possession
Fornals to stitch the possession to the forwards

The full backs and the wide forwards have a responsibility to get in the box to support Haller, so either Fredericks and Yarmolenko are up there, or Masuaku and Anderson.

It wont be difficult for the other team to work out but might give us an understanding of how we are trying to score a goal.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

Patito wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:29 am No it doesn’t. It’s not just a coincidence that the season Moyes joined, they went from champions to mid table. He’s just not a big team manager. Mid table teams with a small budget who don’t care for the style of football. That’s his calling, he does a fine job there.

Milan’s decline was a bit more gradual too. After winning the scudetto they finished 2nd then 3rd before dropping off so the signs were there. You don’t seem to care about facts though to be fair.
You are totally clueless. The fact you ignore the fact that Louis Van Gaal, one of the best managers in modern football, took a wrecking ball to that squad shows how much you understand about football. You probably think Robin Van Persie, the guy who almost single-handedly won them the league the previous season, was doing great under Moyes and should have been allowed to continue to flower under Van Gaal.

You no doubt think Rio Ferdinand was still in tip-top shape, and was just unlucky to get dropped by Harry Redknapp at Queens Park Rangers.

You were probably completely surprised when LVG decided to bring in Di Maria, when he had a real world beater in Nani. The fact is Ferguson allowed the team to completely erode, failing to replace the likes of Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Evra and Vidic with players of a similar quality. In fact he claimed there was 'no value in the market' when prices were far lower than they are now.

You also seem to think Rodgers did well at Liverpool, despite the fact he finished seventh (one place better than Dalglish with two less cup finals), then second due to Suarez having a sublime season that won him a move to Barcelona, before squandering all the cash on poor players (despite mocking Spurs for doing the same thing when they sold Bale) finishing sixth. He was then given the axe after successfully guiding them even lower into tenth spot, with no improvement seemingly in sight. Klopp showed what is possible with a club with the support and resources of Liverpool.

You also seem to think Pelligrini did a good job at Man City, which is only partially true. He did well at first and then it gradually fell to pieces. In fact he initially did OK here, despite a poor start, but we are once again looking as clueless as we ever did under the darkest days of Bilic or Big Sam.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Patito »

Ironing Board wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:41 am You are totally clueless. The fact you ignore the fact that Louis Van Gaal, one of the best managers in modern football, took a wrecking ball to that squad shows how much you understand about football. You probably think Robin Van Persie, the guy who almost single-handedly won them the league the previous season, was doing great under Moyes and should have been allowed to continue to flower under Van Gaal.

You no doubt think Rio Ferdinand was still in tip-top shape, and was just unlucky to get dropped by Harry Redknapp at Queens Park Rangers.

You were probably completely surprised when LVG decided to bring in Di Maria, when he had a real world beater in Nani. The fact is Ferguson allowed the team to completely erode, failing to replace the likes of Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Evra and Vidic with players of a similar quality. In fact he claimed there was 'no value in the market' when prices were far lower than they are now.

You also seem to think Rodgers did well at Liverpool, despite the fact he finished seventh (one place better than Dalglish with two less cup finals), then second due to Suarez having a sublime season that won him a move to Barcelona, before squandering all the cash on poor players (despite mocking Spurs for doing the same thing when they sold Bale) finishing sixth. He was then given the axe after successfully guiding them even lower into tenth spot, with no improvement seemingly in sight. Klopp showed what is possible with a club with the support and resources of Liverpool.

You also seem to think Pelligrini did a good job at Man City, which is only partially true. He did well at first and then it gradually fell to pieces. In fact he initially did OK here, despite a poor start, but we are once again looking as clueless as we ever did under the darkest days of Bilic or Big Sam.
You’ve called me clueless then just gone and made up things I’ve said.

Go and quote where I’ve said Rogers did well at Liverpool and Pellegrini did well at Man City. Go on find that quote.

You can’t hack it that your points have been torn apart by various posters so instead of debating you resort to “you’re clueless, you like this manager bla bla bla”.

It’s laughable. :lol:
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

Post by Ironing Board »

Patito wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:46 am You’ve called me clueless then just gone and made up things I’ve said.

Go and quote where I’ve said Rogers did well at Liverpool and Pellegrini did well at Man City. Go on find that quote.

You can’t hack it that your points have been torn apart by various posters so instead of debating you resort to “you’re clueless, you like this manager bla bla bla”.

It’s laughable. :lol:
You supported Wilko's point that Rodgers did well at Liverpool. If he did well at Liverpool then I'd dread to think what doing bad at Liverpool would be in you guys' opinion.
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Re: Manuel Pellegrini West Ham United’s 17th manager

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Wilko1304 wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:02 pm Aberdeen werent a tiny club then (or now) so it certainly wasn’t working his way up the leagues.

British managers haven’t earned their shot. Rodgers did well but there was this one guy who had a go with a big club, the champions, and absolutely shat the bed. There were talks of his training methods being outdated and his managerial style underwhelming for players who wanted to dominate games. Moyes the pity, I can’t remember his name...
More utter codswallop. The standard of the Scottish Premiership is nowhere near what it was back then, when Dundee United and Aberdeen were challenging for European honours. The fact the Aberdeen manager was linked with Sunderland in League One speaks volume, as does the fact Scottish league winning managers will go to Championship clubs nowadays, rather than Premier teams.

Aberdeen play in front of 15000 crowds
Last edited by Ironing Board on Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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