Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

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the pink palermo
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by the pink palermo » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:34 am

Dwight1970 wrote:Pinky, where have I accused you of doing wrong?
Further down in your post
Dwight1970 wrote: If you cannot see or are not prepared to call any flaws or abuses of the AST scheme then I don’t believe you are looking at this objectively
But let's move on.....
Dwight1970 wrote: I have expressed an opinion that I don’t think the way the AST operates is fair, when someone can get one with little previous away attendance and be guaranteed a ticket by having one whereas someone who doesn’t yet has a 90+% attendance is now missing games.
Was it fair for pensioners to be turfed out of prime half way line seats when we moved to the bowl unless they could find twice as much money to reserve their spot ?

If you arguing "fairness" why not have a go at Bondholders as well as ASTH's, there are more of them than there are ASTH, and should they still get preferential treatment 27 years after they did their deal ?

I personally wouldn't by the way, they simply followed the rules at the time as indeed did I as an away STH.
Dwight1970 wrote: Had the club frozen the ASTs at say 500 and a PP threshold had to be met to be eligible for one if it became available, I would feel differently but increasing them whilst introducing the ballot and higher corporate take up whilst simply allocating the new AST as first come first served then I am against them if that is how their allocation will continue and have no problem if they were scrapped, had they kept at say 500 cap and PPs in getting one I would still support them, as I said it has been an eye opener the tone of the replies I have received when all I have ever advocated is sticking to a system that rewards loyalty.
Dwight, the "tone of the replies" I believe to be relatively calm considering what you are suggesting : to be clear , because two of your mates with high points have faced being refused an AST you are happy for the entire scheme to be scrapped, something that will impact hundreds of supporters who have done nothing wrong except sticking to the rules, and you wonder why you're not getting a round of applause.

Again, I must repeat, the hundreds of supporters who have followed the rules are not responsible for the fate of your two mates.
Dwight1970 wrote:the club will find little backlash if they chose to scrap them in my view.
Actually Dwight, I think the club will find considerable backlash, but even if it doesn't, how will scrapping the scheme help your two mates get an away ticket ?

I refer you to Kialos's reply to my post further up, the process of monetising the away tickets for the benefit of GSB has already started, calls from people to scrap the away scheme will accelerate that process, and if you think the current system is unfair , you ain't seen nothing yet.

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brownout
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by brownout » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:20 am

Double points for home cup games, whilst morally wrong, is of limited relevance as almost everyone who travels to most away games will buy ticket for these games.

Big difference is clearly tickets being syphoned off by club for mates & corporates. I used to be able to get ticket for Bournemouth, last year just missed out, this year no hope.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Albie Beck » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:30 am

brownout wrote:Big difference is clearly tickets being syphoned off by club for mates & corporates. I used to be able to get ticket for Bournemouth, last year just missed out, this year no hope.
Exactly same for our group, brownout.

The goalposts have moved.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Doc H Ball » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:00 am

At Bournemouth last year was a big gang from Bassett and Gold.

These ‘200 new ASTs’ include corporate tickets imho. Rather than give them out as comps I reckon the slippery sods have given the lounges a load of ‘ASTs’ to offer them around. I know that the flunkies go around the lounges offering away tickets.

So when Dwight’s mate gets rightly peeved about the Club not having a fair system by allocating ASTs based on PPs rather than financial motives, perhaps he should complain about that rather than turfing, for example, 80 year old Ken off the coach.

No wonder this Club feels able to constantly crap on its supporter base when the supporters do it for them.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Dwight1970 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:19 am

If any of the replies from AST holders think they are changing my view then believe me they are doing the opposite.

I will make it absolutely clear, my only gripe was before yesterday was with the way the club allocated AST not the holders that was until after I saw someone posted a suggestion that ASTs could be scrapped for something they felt could possibly be a more fairer system to every supporter not just a select few but I was taken aback by the responses that person got from AST holders and after pipping up myself I am now getting the same treatment, I am amazed AST holders cannot the criticism is not of them but the scheme which many believe now puts the majority of fellows at a disadvantage even some of the loyalist fans I know.

I have never once accused any AST of wrongdoing and it is totally irrelevant what I think of other aspects of how West Ham treat fans in respect of ticketing, it is ironic as AST holders seem happy to not challenge a scheme that is now screwing over loads other loyal West Ham fans simply because they benefit from it and will not entertain any alternative, my opinion is I think the way the AST scheme operates is now is unfair to the majority of West Ham fans and a fairer system should be in place.

To criticise me for being unfair to other West Ham fans is laughable just because I will no longer endorse a scheme that guarantees some less loyal fans over more loyal fans a ticket for games and this privilege continues whether they attend matches or not, AST have openly said they see no problem reselling tickets for the odd games they cannot attend something again I think is morally wrong and I have yet to see any AST holder condemn this practice? (I hasten to add I think it is wrong for anyone AST or not to resell a ticket without the selling clubs authority)

At the end of the day however the club chooses to distribute tickets is up to them, I just would like them to be transparent with whatever it is and if they decide to do something that I think is unfair I will voice my thoughts exactly like I have with ASTs.

I don't want to fall out with fellow West Ham fans because the daft thing is I agree with most of what they say about the clubs behaviour with ticketing but if someone thinks something is unfair they think it is unfair, I simply believe there is a fairer way of allocating away tickets than the use of the current AST scheme (I had little problem when it was a capped figure of the 500 supporters who had gone week in and out for years) and if the replies were more along the lines that yes it should be looked at rather than the opposite, I would have gone to bed on this subject ages ago.

All the responses on here from AST holders have done on here is ensure if I was ever asked by the club my opinion on the subject my reply would be I see little reason for the AST to stay in place and would like to them investigate alternatives.
Last edited by Dwight1970 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Dwight1970 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:31 am

Doc H Ball wrote:At Bournemouth last year was a big gang from Bassett and Gold.

These ‘200 new ASTs’ include corporate tickets imho. Rather than give them out as comps I reckon the slippery sods have given the lounges a load of ‘ASTs’ to offer them around. I know that the flunkies go around the lounges offering away tickets.

So when Dwight’s mate gets rightly peeved about the Club not having a fair system by allocating ASTs based on PPs rather than financial motives, perhaps he should complain about that rather than turfing, for example, 80 year old Ken off the coach.

No wonder this Club feels able to constantly crap on its supporter base when the supporters do it for them.
Where have I advocated turfing anyone off the coach, please do not twist what I say, I have stated clearly that any alternative put in place should in my opinion reward loyalty and long time AST holders will still be rightly at the top of the pile for that so no one should be kicking 80 year old Ken off the coach, I simply want to see a scheme in place that is transparent and I don't think the AST scheme the way it is currently operating does that and more open fairer scheme should be considered but AST holders rather than saying that is a reasonable point I am being criticised for the having that view.

The more I am dug out personally I am sure it will not change the views of anyone who thinks the AST is now operating in an unfair way, only accepting there are issues and suggesting how they can be addressed will.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by mushy » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:44 am

So what you are saying is that you think the club have deliberately corrupted the ast scheme (a scheme that has worked largely without criticism since its inception), and therefore the entire system should be scrapped?
By introducing those with money and those friendly with the board they have replaced the waiting list with nepotism and corruptness. This in turn has a knock on effect with those on high points. We gradually slide lower down the pecking order.
They have got exactly what they want, supporters arguing with fellow supporters.
This has absolutely nothing to do with ast's or those that supposedly hoard points.
Its the board and nobody else at fault here.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by browney83 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:50 am

Had lunch with a mate who has 2 tickets in hospitality and 5 seats Band 1 behind the dug out. As a sweetner to get them to renew the 2 in hospitality they were offered first shout at all away games for all 7 seats. This has been replicated amongst all people with similar seats. He has 7 for Oxford and Bournemouth already for example and has never really been away at all. This has been happening for 2 seasons now but this year all are cottoning on and getting the aways. I am on 13 points and just got my first away of the season for Villa. It is a shambles.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by danm79 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:51 am

Dwight1970 wrote: My friend previous to this season who has only missed the Wimbledon fixtures in the last few years so has pretty much the max PPs a non-AST could have has been denied an AST when contacting the ticket office for the last two season yet there are numerous posts stating the club have been issuing them to fans with low PPs this summer so he has no idea how he can get one, so all sounds rather secretive to me unless you can please provide me with the clear process and criteria on any of the clubs platform that explains otherwise? it would be really helpful as I can’t see anything, Thank you.
There is a section on the ST benefits page (dont know how to do pictures) but wording below for this season. Having not worried to much about the wording I question what 'prioirity order' is.

AWAY SEASON TICKET

Guarantees you a ticket for every away Premier League fixture. Away Season Tickets are available on a renewal basis with the deadline of Friday 17 May. Any remaining spaces will be sold to those on the away scheme waiting list in priority order. To renew or join the waiting list please call the Ticket Office on 0333 030 1966. Terms and Conditions at eticketing.co.uk/WHUFC

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by mushy » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:52 am

Dwight1970 wrote: Where have I advocated turfing anyone off the coach, please do not twist what I say, I have stated clearly that any alternative put in place should in my opinion reward loyalty and long time AST holders will still be rightly at the top of the pile for that so no one should be kicking 80 year old Ken off the coach, I simply want to see a scheme in place that is transparent and I don't think the AST scheme the way it is currently operating does that and more open fairer scheme should be considered but AST holders rather than saying that is a reasonable point I am being criticised for the having that view.

The more I am dug out personally I am sure it will not change the views of anyone who thinks the AST is now operating in an unfair way, only accepting there are issues and suggesting how they can be addressed will.
I havent seen a single poster that hasnt asked for transparency.
That is what is required, it will never will though. No real point in changing anything without that is there?

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Dwight1970 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:52 am

mushy wrote:So what you are saying is that you think the club have deliberately corrupted the ast scheme (a scheme that has worked largely without criticism since its inception), and therefore the entire system should be scrapped?
By introducing those with money and those friendly with the board they have replaced the waiting list with nepotism and corruptness. This in turn has a knock on effect with those on high points. We gradually slide lower down the pecking order.
They have got exactly what they want, supporters arguing with fellow supporters.
This has absolutely nothing to do with ast's or those that supposedly hoard points.
Its the board and nobody else at fault here.
Yes if a fairer system can be introduced I would scrap it, if it can't then I frankly don't care now as it seems as long as I am alright jack everything is ok no matter how many other loyal fans are losing out, I give up.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by danm79 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:57 am

browney83 wrote:Had lunch with a mate who has 2 tickets in hospitality and 5 seats Band 1 behind the dug out. As a sweetner to get them to renew the 2 in hospitality they were offered first shout at all away games for all 7 seats. This has been replicated amongst all people with similar seats. He has 7 for Oxford and Bournemouth already for example and has never really been away at all. This has been happening for 2 seasons now but this year all are cottoning on and getting the aways. I am on 13 points and just got my first away of the season for Villa. It is a shambles.
This is the problem, scrap AST and every game will go to BH then Corporate - we will end up at games with only corporates.

Brighton and Watford atmosphere was pretty flat, lots of new faces and people looking lost in the stands - I put this down to a lot of first timers.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Dwight1970 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:59 am

danm79 wrote: There is a section on the ST benefits page (dont know how to do pictures) but wording below for this season. Having not worried to much about the wording I question what 'prioirity order' is.

AWAY SEASON TICKET

Guarantees you a ticket for every away Premier League fixture. Away Season Tickets are available on a renewal basis with the deadline of Friday 17 May. Any remaining spaces will be sold to those on the away scheme waiting list in priority order. To renew or join the waiting list please call the Ticket Office on 0333 030 1966. Terms and Conditions at eticketing.co.uk/WHUFC
Thank you for posting this.
My friend first contacted the club last August told none were available and told his was on a waiting list, then he enquired again this July and met the with the same response yet there are posts on here that say others have obtained AST in that timescale, at the end of the day it is his problem and he can take it up with the club I just thought more fellow fans would be upset that the AST scheme operates in a way that clearly discriminates many loyal fans like I was, I will leave it there.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Doc H Ball » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:00 am

[quote=“Dwight1970”]

All the responses on here from AST holders have done on here is ensure if I was ever asked by the club my opinion on the subject my reply would be I see little reason for the AST to stay in place and would like to them investigate alternatives.

[quote/]

No chance of that happening then.

Ken, btw, can’t operate a calculator. He wouldn’t ever be able to fathom the Mensa accredited PP application system but I will tell him that because you didn’t like some defensive replies you now think the AST he has had for decades should be taken off him.

Are you really so niave as to believe that if a new system was put in place by the charlatans running the gaff that it would be fair?

The new ASTs shouldn’t have been allocated. It was only done to hide the like of the above.
Last edited by Doc H Ball on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by browney83 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:01 am

Yep because of inside knowledge like that I have been aware of it for a while. Drives me nuts. This will sadly be my last year of aways as will only manage to get 2/3 points max, despite going to around 15 aways a season up until now.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Bubbles Murray » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:02 am

browney83 wrote:Had lunch with a mate who has 2 tickets in hospitality and 5 seats Band 1 behind the dug out. As a sweetner to get them to renew the 2 in hospitality they were offered first shout at all away games for all 7 seats. This has been replicated amongst all people with similar seats. He has 7 for Oxford and Bournemouth already for example and has never really been away at all. This has been happening for 2 seasons now but this year all are cottoning on and getting the aways. I am on 13 points and just got my first away of the season for Villa. It is a shambles.

Reading that, well, it makes you feel like jacking it all in.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Row X » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:09 am

Dwight1970 wrote:
Yes if a fairer system can be introduced I would scrap it, if it can't then I frankly don't care now as it seems as long as I am alright jack everything is ok no matter how many other loyal fans are losing out, I give up.
Dwight the system we have has been in place 20+ years and was working fine.

The guys and gals that put the miles in got the rewards.

The £30 away cap and an extra 25,000 home season ticket holders have definatly made the 3,000 away tickets harder to get, of course that will happen. However, the board are using underhand tactics to syphon off tickets to their 'money pals' and people then who are missing out on tickets are pointing the finger at the people who are getting tickets through the correct channels...

"ASTH don't go every game, I can't get their ticket, it's not fair"

"People on high points just buy tickets, to top up their points, it's not fair"

I've missed out on Watford and Bournemouth already this season. I knew I'd miss out on Bournemouth, the allocation is far too low for me to stand a chance, missing out on Watford hurt though. I had 21 points and the 21 point window was open for about 2 minutes before it sold out (due to the ballot taking tickets).

The main issue is the Board giving tickets to their mates and not even saying why. We've seen in this thread examples of Manchester United and Liverpool telling their fans excatly who got what tickets, if our board would be more open I'm sure more people would accept the situation. However, them keeping quiet fuels the speculation that they are giving away hundreds of tickets to people who would not and should not qualify for them.

The system we have should work, but it won't work if the board are screwing it from the inside.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Albie Beck » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:16 am

Dwight - you're aiming your fire at the wrong target. It's not the 500 or so "original" ASTs that are the problem, nor the in all probability 120 or so bond holders who take tickets - if you refer to Browney83's post that is where the problem is arising.

And people like me and our group who have high but not max points are now being squeezed out, just like last season it was those on mid-range points. Those poor sods will really struggle for most games now, and of course the ladder has been properly kicked away for those on even less.

But blame those who caused it, not fellow victims.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Dwight1970 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:20 am

Doc so what you saying is I should support something I think is unfair to the majority of West Ham fans because Ken can’t work a calculator, crazy, the club should always provide alternative means for those for whatever reason are unable to use the devices required to purchase tickets, so why should this be a problem?
Can’t you equally see that if the existence of the AST scheme with no transparency that you admit the club will not change is the perfect way to cream off tickets to whoever the club wishes they shouldn’t be questioned?
As I said it seems to be an attitude if I am not losing out let’s not question it, as I said if the club cannot come up with a fairer way to distribute away tickets then I couldn’t care less if the AST stays or goes because the majority of fans will be losing out anyway whatever happens.

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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Dwight1970 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:40 am

Albie Beck wrote:Dwight - you're aiming your fire at the wrong target. It's not the 500 or so "original" ASTs that are the problem, nor the in all probability 120 or so bond holders who take tickets - if you refer to Browney83's post that is where the problem is arising.

And people like me and our group who have high but not max points are now being squeezed out, just like last season it was those on mid-range points. Those poor sods will really struggle for most games now, and of course the ladder has been properly kicked away for those on even less.

But blame those who caused it, not fellow victims.
I did not blame the 500 original AST holders at all, I have in nearly every post said I would have absolutely no problem if it stayed at that number but it is some of those 500 who have aimed their criticism at me for suggesting that since the 500 was breached I feel the scheme the way it now operates is unfair to the majority of fans.

Rather than support this view I have been attacked with almost an I am alright jack approach so don’t dare question it and my response to that point is I see little reason to keep AST for anyone if that is the view held by those that hold ASTs.

Of course I blame the club but that means calling them out on everything that is unfair just not bits that bother you personally, I thought the ballot was not necessarily a bad idea but unfair how it is applied, I think bond holders and corporate getting tickets is understandable but again think it is unfair how it is carried out and likewise I think in principle the AST is a good idea but feel it is operated unfairly, I would scrap any of those processes if a fairer way could be found for any of them, that is all I have suggested for AST, I simply cannot understand why that is such a bad view to have?
Last edited by Dwight1970 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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