Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

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HarlowEssexHammer
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by HarlowEssexHammer » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:54 pm

Phil S wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:57 pm
wow

Wonderful suggestion by the SAG
How detached is the good old game now...

If this gathers any sort of pace, it would be interesting to see how the club would attempt to define "non-risk fans" without breaking any sort of discrimination laws/regs.

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Captain Slaphead
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Captain Slaphead » Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:18 pm

HarlowEssexHammer wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:54 pm
If this gathers any sort of pace, it would be interesting to see how the club would attempt to define "non-risk fans" without breaking any sort of discrimination laws/regs.
Surely not WH's problem in this case -- as it relates to games at The Brady Bowl, it will be for visiting clubs to judge / implement.

I would fully agree that it's a dangerous precedent though......

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brooking_1980
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by brooking_1980 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:28 pm

Kialos wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:50 pm
I don't think you can make that assumption.
I think you are right. Making that assumption is essentially guessing the number of AST and does not help figure out where are the Away Tickets going, which is the point.

Do we have the minutes of the OSB meeting as regards the Away Tickets somewhere ?

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Cottee
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Cottee » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:50 am

I thought they'd agreed to scrap the ballot for games with lower allocations?

Only 2,350 for Burnley yet they're still doing it.

Row X
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Row X » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:55 am

Cottee wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:50 am
I thought they'd agreed to scrap the ballot for games with lower allocations?

Only 2,350 for Burnley yet they're still doing it.
It's a pig to get to, quite a few will be put off by that. Personally think it will drop quite a few points brackets before the ballot comes into play (I hope).

ornchurch ammer
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by ornchurch ammer » Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:20 am

Another factor in this debate is why are we getting lower allocations for away games?

I'm sure that when Ive been to Burnley there has been more than 2,500. Felt like more than that in the cricket club.

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LincolnshireHammer
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by LincolnshireHammer » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:16 am

Burnley is one of the best away days I've done. Pub at the station is fantastic for real ale if that's what you're into. Brewed on site by the landlord.

The ground is proper old school too, like being back at Upton Park, definitely one I'd love to get to again!

jonnymoncs87
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An inclusive away ticket system

Post by jonnymoncs87 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:31 pm

Interesting and thought-provoking piece on West Ham’s broken away match ticket system.


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Phil S
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Re: An inclusive away ticket system

Post by Phil S » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:42 pm

Credit (or not) to Harry Lewis

I’m ready for the brickbats … but here is my take on the away ticket controversy that never goes away. I have thought of doing this for a while but never got round to it.

Back in the day — when we had a capacity of 35,000 (or even at times 26,000) — this issue was never a problem. Also partly because away tickets were comparatively more expensive (and in some cases, significantly so). I don’t think anyone argues against a maximum price for away tickets (in fact, #twentysplenty). Indeed, it’s an inclusive measure that allows more people to follow the team over land and sea (although I’m not sure inclusive is the word I’d describe our away ticket allocation system).
And before I get going, our away support is class. Best in the country.
So what causes the angst? The priority point system, the away season ticket holder system, the 10% bail-out to non-priority point holders and the selling of tickets by the first two categories to less attractive matches. Oh, and the club providing tickets to unknown mates and corporates. So actually that’s five things. Tricky problem.

So first things first. Declarations of interest. No one can be said to truly sit on the fence. Either you want to keep your (well-earned?) privileges (your priority points) or you want to join the club of those who have those privileges (and then presumably keep them for yourself?). Once upon a time, I was in the first group. **** everyone else. Life changed for me — after 10 years, I dropped my season ticket but after a five-year gap, I’ve been back again for the last two years. So disclaimer alert — I am in the second category.

So some solutions — some more realistic than others.

Ask the club to campaign to the Premier League for higher away ticket allocations. Which would mean us giving other teams a higher allocation too. This to me is a no-brainer (although I don’t have to organise the security or policing). We always hear about the Premier League product. This is dependent on lively atmospheres. We all know the atmosphere is recent years — at both our own ground and others — have been increasingly sterile. We also know a higher away crowd makes for a better, more raucous atmosphere. Who knew it? Increase supply … more tickets … better atmosphere … better product. Each club would likely lose a small amount of revenue as average away ticket price would be lower than most home tickets. But it would be minimal.

So before moving on, go back to my point about cheaper away tickets opening up the possibility of more fans being able to follow the team away. Next let’s ask ourselves if there are ‘better’ fans than others who should enjoy the privileges. It’s probably fair to say season ticket holders commit to following the team through sun and rain so should get some preference.

The argument then seems to go that because you have followed the team away and generated a lot of Priority Points, you must be a better fan than someone who would like to do the same but can’t ever acquire enough points to do so. Get the logic? There are probably 6,000–9,000 fans who would, given the chance, buy an away season ticket, let alone buy on a match by match basis through the acquisition of priority points. My argument is that if that’s the case, the fans without are equally deserving as the fans with the priority points or away season tickets.
Obviously, there are some fair(er) weather fans who would like to dip in to the odd away game … I’ll come to that.

So … as I’ve already said … this issue seems to be one of supply and demand. So let’s ask the club to be entirely transparent and disclose how many away tickets were provided to friends and family of the club outside of the usual routes. And let’s get them to reduce that allocation to say 50 per game (although it should probably be zero).

And then away season ticket holders … at first, this seems an anachronism but actually on second thoughts, this may have some merit. If we have say 6,000 people who would be prepared to buy an away season ticket, why not provide all of them with a one third away season ticket (e.g. that allows you to attend six/seven matches). You’d pay at the beginning of the season. The games you get would vary through a ballot — a mix of geography, dates and big/small clubs — but would be set out at the beginning of the season once the fixture list was announced.
Alternatively, to give outsiders the chance to work up priority points, you implement a system where no one fan can get more than six priority points each season for away league matches irrespective of how many away games they attend.

And then an idea for a fairer ballot. It seems ludicrous to me that everyone who enters the ballot starts from scratch. If we want to open up our support (and look at Man City if you want to know the risks of an ageing demographic who dominate their season ticket holder base and further sanitise the atmosphere in grounds), then priority is given to those who have previously been unsuccessful. It is patently unfair that you might get tickets three games on the trot through the ballot whilst someone else gets none. It should not be beyond the wit of man to generate a fairer ballot process.
And then let’s talk about selling on of tickets. That’s the only way I get away tickets nowadays and don’t get me wrong, I’m grateful for those who look after me. But I think we all know there are plenty who buy away ticket season tickets (or have high priority points) and sell them on to protect their priority (and I don’t blame them, it’s the system).

So here is my solution. The club don’t want to go down the route of fans collecting them beforehand — that does seem a faff. But technology must exist whereby away fans could check in to a machine with your season ticket card in the away ground (you would need four or five club officials with a ‘dummy turnstile’ inside the ground) that then confirms they attended. And if they don’t, they get fined £50 by the club with increasing penalties if you offend a second time etc. This would be a minor inconvenience.
So I don’t profess to have all the answers — and I don’t doubt that many will argue against. The benefit of my proposed solutions is you could do all of them or some of them or one of them. Some will require the club to make a decision and would cost a minimal amount. But to do nothing is no answer.

We are a football club. We stand and fall by our support. No one fan is better than another. Especially younger ones who turn 18 and never had the chance to build up priority points or buy an away season ticket (for more on the importance of a younger fan base and how it works in Germany, read ‘And the sun shines now’ by Adrian Tempany). What is fair about never allowing them to have the pleasure of following the team away? Let’s be united. We are West Ham.


Not sure what he means by 18 yo not getting tickets...My son is 18 and has been to 28 different football grounds
29 If you include Wembley.
And why oh why do these people think it's in any way fair to stop people who go every week home and away to not be able to do that anymore? So many have been doing it for 20 years or more.
I do feel for anyone who can't get on the ladder now but as has been proven, start with zero points when we moved and by the end of the 2nd season you'd have enough points to get to plenty of away games. We could see what was going to happen with 26,000 new ST holders and capped £30 tickets.

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I8CHAVS
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Re: An inclusive away ticket system

Post by I8CHAVS » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:53 pm

what a load of b*llocks, what should be disclosed is the matches that people actually put in the ballot for, would love to see the desperate away following ballot numbers for this Saturdays game which went into single figure points.

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Re: An inclusive away ticket system

Post by Watford 'Ammer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:25 pm

6,000-9,000 who would want an Away season ticket :?

He does know that means go to every game and not just throw away £30 every other week and wait for Spurs doesn’t he?

I thought it seemed like there was a bit of room at Man City last season? By those numbers there should have been 3,000 lucky ones crammed inside the ground and up to 6,000 more; desperate to go to every game, who couldn’t get a ticket for love nor money.

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Re: An inclusive away ticket system

Post by Watford 'Ammer » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:27 pm

He gets one thing, and one thing only, right.

The club should be transparent as to where tickets go.

Until we get that the discussion should go no further...

Kialos
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Re: An inclusive away ticket system

Post by Kialos » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:01 pm

So some thoughts from one random person are deemed to be of interest and worthy of debate?

Have I missed something? If the OP is this random person then they should declare that.

If they are not perhaps they need to switch on their quality control filter.

Row X
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Row X » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:05 pm

I just got my Burnley tickets.... the window actually opened up on time for once :shock:

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West Ham Dave
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by West Ham Dave » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:24 pm

Row X wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:05 pm
I just got my Burnley tickets.... the window actually opened up on time for once
Same here, had my coffee & a sandwich beside me (substance for the wait) and boom straight in.
Nothing dull when using the ticket website :D

Kialos
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Kialos » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:25 pm

I guess there wasn't a made stampede for Burnley despite it being a great ground and the club always make away fans feel welcome.

westhamshares
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by westhamshares » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:16 am

Some interesting points to discuss completely negated by the stupid observation that there are 6-9000 people who would want an away sth
If he means 6-9000 who might want an away ticket occasionally maybe but the idea that 6/9000 are prepared to go to every away game what a load of BS

Northbank Bar
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Northbank Bar » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:14 pm

Afternoon all.Hammers United this morning EMailed the following to West Ham.

Jake Heath,
Supporters Services Manager,
West Ham United F.C.
London Stadium.
London E20

October 16th 2019.

Dear Jake,

Distribution of West Ham’s Away Tickets.

We wrote to you on behalf of our members on September 26th seeking engagement on the subject of transparency.Unfortunately you have not replied to date so we are still left guessing as to exact figures re.distribution of our away tickets.
Claret and Hugh recently ran an article giving the figures laid out below.They apparently have sources close to the club and were present at the ticketing OSB.meeting so in the absence of your reply we will take them as fact:-

There are 808 Bondholders.Up to 300 claim a ticket for big away games.
90 tickets are made available to players,staff and their families.
Up to 10% are allocated to registered disabled though only a few take this up.
Up to 200 are allocated to Club London members.
10% are reserved for general ballot except when allocation is very small.
700 are allocated to Away Season Ticket holders.
Rest are sold to Season ticket holders with the highest priority points.

Using these figures Jake the number of tickets left for priority points applicants seems too low.Our members really would be grateful if you could release figures so that the they and the fanbase in general can put this matter to bed once and for all.

We note that it is a regulatory requirement that the club has and publishes it’s ticketing policies.

Thank you in anticipation of your assistance in this matter.

Best Regards
Lee Rogers.
Joint Secretary.

www.hammersunited.com

ornchurch ammer
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by ornchurch ammer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:43 pm

Dear Lee,

Mind your own ****ing business.

Kind Regards
Jake

Watford 'Ammer
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Re: Away tickets 2019 / 2020 season

Post by Watford 'Ammer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:23 pm

So, for a popular game, 1300 could quite conceivably go before tickets are on sale to season ticket holders (who don’t hold away season tickets).

See Bournemouth Away.

However, realistically speaking, where is the possible movement in this number?

ASTs, I believe, are now capped. Fair play to anyone who holds an AST. It’s a serious commitment and these are ‘hard core’ fans. I don’t see movement in numbers here, nor should there be movement in my opinion.

Bondholders. They bought bonds when the Away ticket process and market was very different. It’s not their fault that the club offered what it did. Should the club buy them out or offer ASTs? Even if they should, it serves the club no purpose, so surely they never will.

That’s 1000 gone for the most popular games. That is just about manageable.... it’s very rare we get an allocation of less than 1000.

Surely, one way or another, 1000 has to be the top end, in terms of numbers taken before season ticket holders can buy. Perhaps family and friends have to be reduced on occasion. Perhaps corporate allocations have to be reduced for certain games.

In the same way as we keep 10% for any season ticket holder to lay claim to, we should ensure that there is also a reasonable number of tickets going to priority points sale every game. Some games don’t get the 10% ballot. So maybe some games should also have a cap of (say 1000) being distributed before they go ‘on sale’.

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