Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

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ironilunga
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Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by ironilunga » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:04 am

We could potentially finish this season in 7th and 'best of the rest'.

Questions:

1. Which players in our current squad are good enough to feature regularly in a first 11 next season that could seriously challenge the top 6?

2. Of the current players you deem not good enough to be regulars next season (in the above scenario of challenging top 6) who would you keep on as a squad player and why?

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The Old Man of Storr
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:30 am

Fabianski

Diop

Balbuena

Reid [ if fit ]

Rice

Noble

Lanzini

Anderson

Yarmolenko [ if fit ]

Arnautovic

Those would be the only players I'd keep if I thought we were going to mount a Top 6 challenge - however , while Top 6 is all well and good I didn't begin following West Ham because challenging for top honours was important to me - as long as the team does its best and we play mostly attractive football I'm quite happy . Mind you , having said that we did get a glimpse of it in '86 and that was nice .

If you employ Manuel Pellegrini then you're getting a manager who has history of achieving such results but he was working for people with money - we haven't got top 6 full backs , we have far too many injury prone players , we lack Top 6 right sided midfielders and only possess 1 Top 6 striker and his attitude is questionable .

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by pablo jaye » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:48 am

TOMoS ... I think you are pretty much on the money with everything there. The only two doubts I’d have would be Yarms and Winnie - and that’s because they haven’t been fit.

Pellars is the key to this, as he knows how to get to the top 6 and is a manager who could get us there playing a style of football that we’d enjoy.

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hammer1975
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:50 am

This becomes a different question if (as suggested from some of the clubs favoured social media sources) the club only has a budget of £25m in the summer.

Realistically i think our target for next season needs to be 7th - solidifying top half and going for a cup.

Appreciate that budget will be plus sales but we will need to replace most outs. Some are out on loan so if we can sell those then that helps - but can’t see that raising loads and could easily see a situation where some of them are loaned again.

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ironilunga
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by ironilunga » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:10 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:Fabianski

Diop

Balbuena

Reid [ if fit ]

Rice

Noble

Lanzini

Anderson

Yarmolenko [ if fit ]

Arnautovic .

I agree in terms of first choices but would also retain Nasri, Ogbonna,Cresswell, Fredricks and Snodders as squad players. God knows Wilshire also has the quality but sadly not the health.

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Marky
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by Marky » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:12 am

The Old Man of Storr wrote:Fabianski

Diop

Balbuena

Reid [ if fit ]

Rice

Noble

Lanzini

Anderson

Yarmolenko [ if fit ]

Arnautovic

Those would be the only players I'd keep if I thought we were going to mount a Top 6 challenge - however , while Top 6 is all well and good I didn't begin following West Ham because challenging for top honours was important to me - as long as the team does its best and we play mostly attractive football I'm quite happy . Mind you , having said that we did get a glimpse of it in '86 and that was nice .

If you employ Manuel Pellegrini then you're getting a manager who has history of achieving such results but he was working for people with money - we haven't got top 6 full backs , we have far too many injury prone players , we lack Top 6 right sided midfielders and only possess 1 Top 6 striker and his attitude is questionable .


What have you seen in Yarmolenko thst I haven’t ? Are you basing it all for one performance v Everton?

I think he is a one trick pony and that’s before the injury

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by Burnley Hammer » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:15 am

The important thing for me is that 5 of those players from TOMOS's list will be better players next season. Balbuena, Diop, and Anderson will have settled in to English football, Lanzini will be back to full sharpness, and Rice will have had another year of maturing and improving. The likes of Diangara, Silva, and Johnson will also be further forward with their progression. Theres a lot to look forward to. I personally think Nasri should stay too, and maybe Antonio now that he has rediscovered his form. Even Ogbonna is winning me round at the moment.

We don't need to bring in too many players... a dynamic energetic box to box midfielder should be the priority, and then a cheaper backup for Rice and an Arnie replacement if he goes.

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by Wilko1304 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:25 am

Finishing 7th once (not that I think we will) isn’t gonna make the next step top 6. The next step is having the consistency to do it again.

I think we will trim the fat this summer, which will take effort. It’s a squad game and we need one we can reliably use. This season has shown some depth, but I would imagine Pellegrini would be looking at less minutes for Noble, Snodgrass and Antonio, let alone Perez, Carroll and the likes of Masuaku.

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thejackhammer
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by thejackhammer » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:51 am

£25 million budget, that cannot be true?!

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bubbles1966
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:13 am

If we finish 7th, it must follow that we already a top 7 squad, and a £25m net budget would have to be spent securing marginal gains.

So,

GK:
We could, if Adrian is agreeable, just stick.
Gross/Net Spend = £0

FB:
Fred, Cresswell and Johnson stay.
Zabaleta >>> Valencia is a like for like switch
Byram and Masuaku could conceivably go. Income £7m-£10m
Gross Spend c £10m. Net Spend = £0. All at left back.

CB:

Diop, Balbuena, Ogbonna - there's no desperate reason to move any of them on.
It depends on Winston. If he's fit, no change.

CM:
Rice to stay. Noble to stay.
Wilshere and Sanchez?
Obiang, Cullen and Fernandes to go? I'll stick Ocford in for the sake of putting him somwhere. Income about £15m-£18m.

Buy at least one, possibly two.
Gross Spend = £30m
Net Spend = £12m

AM
Lanzini, Anderson, Yarmolenko, Snodgrass, Antonio, Diangana to stay.
Nasri? Wilshere also here.
Be interested to see Marcus Browne and Nathan Holland.

We don't "need".

CF
I'd keep Arnie, Hernandez is doing well and Silva looks a prospect.
Carroll, Hugill, Perez to go. Income - about £10m.

Buy one, (possibly two if either Arnie or Hernandez go)

Gross Spend = £25m (assuming Arnie/hernandez stay)
Net spend = £15m

I think it's possible to work with £25m-£30m plus sales. Europa league would probably add £15m to the kitty from finishing 7th, extra games in qualifiers and then reaching the group. The gross budget should be about £60m-£70m (and that's with keeping arnie)

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by DasNutNock » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:17 am

In an ideal world, we’d be looking at upgrading:

Masuaku (generally poor defending, usually makes our CH’s play worse)
Reid (fitness)
Zab (retiring)
Wheelchair (fitness)
Obiang (hasn’t played like an upper tier player for a long time)
Perez (not good enough)
Carroll (fitness)
Arnie (unless he checks his ego and commits 100% to us)


Fair chance Chich will sod off, too, which could leave us needing to find potentially 4 new forwards, 2 midfielders, LB and RB cover for Cres and Fred and a CH. That is a big ask. Yarm deserves another crack, but I remain largely unconvinced.

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The Old Man of Storr
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:26 am

pablo jaye wrote:
Pellars is the key to this, as he knows how to get to the top 6 and is a manager who could get us there playing a style of football that we’d enjoy.
Had we done this with the Leicester City Squad of 2015/16 how many of their players would we have included as ' good enough for Top 6 ' - sometimes it's about building a team , they don't all have to be World Beaters and nowadays it's about the quality of your Squad - had Sanchez , Wilshere , Lanzini and Yarmolenko not missed the best part of this season I would have said our chances of reaching Top 6 would have been that much better - Pellegrini has improved one or two of our players who were already here , both Cresswell and Antonio are showing form of old - ok both have suffered injuries so it could be said they just needed time to recover that form but there's no doubt that our style of play has improved .

We could still do with signing two more strikers with better movement than Carroll and Hernandez , a partner for young Declan and a right sided midfielder -

Having said all that I still think Sanchez , Wilshere , Yarmolenko and Antonio can be influential players for us next season , if Antonio continues to improve he could be massive , he has 75% of all the attributes required to be a top player , just lacks that final ball and shooting accuracy .

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The Old Man of Storr
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:40 am

Marky wrote:




What have you seen in Yarmolenko thst I haven’t ? Are you basing it all for one performance v Everton?

I think he is a one trick pony and that’s before the injury
Everton , Chelsea and Man Utd - Scored - Should have scored - Scored .

What did you see in Felipe Anderson's game during the first half a dozen matches ?

If you were going by reputation alone then Yarmolenko would have cost us 50m - he had those injury problems in Germany hence the lower price of 17m -

I selected him [ if fit ] because we haven't seen enough of him , what we did see was good enough - he has the skills and confidence to be a success in the Premiership , his style is very similar to that of Arnautovic who in my opinion is the best player at our club .

Who would be your players to keep and why ?

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:05 am

ironilunga wrote:



I agree in terms of first choices but would also retain Nasri, Ogbonna,Cresswell, Fredricks and Snodders as squad players. God knows Wilshire also has the quality but sadly not the health.

I thought your post was only asking for first team players we would / should keep to mount an offensive on Top 6 - had you asked which players we should keep for next season then my answer would have been different .

Pellegrini gave a chance to at least 3 of our youth players this season , there'll be one or two more given chances next season I am sure .

Ogbonna , Nasri , Antonio , Fredericks , Cresswell , Snodgrass and Hernandez are all good enough to be kept on as Squad players - I think Perez would have been good enough but I think there's been a falling out with the Manager , Obiang wants to go , it would depend on which contract was acceptable but I think Carroll is worth keeping as a Squad player - I would love it if Marko Arnautovic remained with us next season but there's a question mark hanging over him . There's a chance that all 4 of our strikers could leave and for that reason I believe our owners will do all they can to keep our best 2 [ Arnautovic and Hernandez ] with Carroll staying on as 3rd or 4th choice . Personally , I would sell Hernandez , Perez and Carroll and sign 2 established strikers to join up with Arnautovic .

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by rtwhufc83 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:08 am

My only concern with Lanzini is....Is he a sick note? He's been fighting injurys since hes been here I hope this time he can stay injury free until the end of the season. He's definatley filled out since we last saw him which is a good thing

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by prophet:marginal » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:13 am

The top 6 isn't just one place better; they are at the moment 10 points (or in fact 4 wins, but fewer draws) better off than Wolves, minimum.

I reckon that will be closer to 15 points (5 wins) better off.

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by mumbles87 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:14 am

For me every single one of them bar Carrol .. just because he is unfit

It’s a squad game

So you need to add to what you got

New left back and a box to box midfielder then we have a cracking team

If arnie leaves replace him

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hammer1975
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:17 am

I don’t get the Yarmolenko ‘one trick pony’ view. He is clearly very left footed but his left foot and his tricks are so good that even though teams know he’s going onto his left they still can’t stop him. It was also clear that he interplay’s with some of our best players really well on a relatively short viewing. I’m very much looking forward to him being fit and firing. Definite keep imo.

I still think that we need to address full back and centre mid to progress, also conscious that other teams will strengthen in the summer so we need to be mindful of complacency.

The striker situation probably dictates quite a lot of our business. If we end up selling Arnie and Chicharito to get them off the wage bill then we may end up paying out more than we sell them for. Striker purchases are a huge risk at the best of times.

I quite liked the link to Jovetic in January. Really liked him at Man City - but obviously another injury prone player so may not be worth the risk.

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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by danm79 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:26 am

thejackhammer wrote:£25 million budget, that cannot be true?!
If this is true I can't see Pellegrini hanging around

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e17
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Re: Challenging the top 6 - who stays?

Post by e17 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:26 am

I’ll take finishing 10th and winning a cup

Same outcome anyway ain’t it?!?

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