Hammers United Inc. New Season, same goals.

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taffhammer
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by taffhammer » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:19 pm

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Well it is democratic, anyone could apply.
Yes, i hear the next general election in North Korea is set to use the same template.

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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:54 pm

Again it doesn't matter what you or I think of the process. It only matters if it meets the rules, which it looks to me that it does. They will have checked before they did it. They had an fa member on the panel and the supporters club head.

Looking with an admittedly untrained eye they look to be well within the rules. I hope I am wrong and they say we have checked and we will add reps from indy supporters groups, we are keen to hear what you want and to implement it. I'm not holding my breath though.

Hit them in the wallet, its the only thing they understand and its the only actual power fans have. Unfortunately and understandably people aren't prepared to give up their days at games. Until wanting things changed trumps going its a losing battle Imo.

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Albie Beck
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Albie Beck » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:26 pm

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:I hope I am wrong and they say we have checked and we will add reps from indy supporters groups, we are keen to hear what you want and to implement it.
They've already done that - extending an invitation to both HU and WHUISA to sit on the OSB. But they, wisely imo, declined.

I suspect that the sticking point is that irrespective of whether the OSB is chosen in a manner befitting the "rules" or not, when it comes to key decisions they are taken without reference to the OSB anyway!! - That's why it's a farce.

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Big George
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Big George » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:33 pm

The OSB is a sham. It's not independent, it's not democratic.

It doesn't meet the criteria of engaging with fan groups. The problem is there is no appetite from the PL to push this. It's pretty clear there is a lack of respect i the way WH treat the process.

As HHS has said repeatedly, "if I can't get rid of you, you don't represent me"

They serve a the pleasure of the club, only the club can remove them.

They represent Brady and the rest of the exec/board to the fans,not the other way round. It's a classic astroturfing operation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Marlow Vaderman wrote:[
One question.
You clicked to join on FB.. Do you consider yourself a member?
If so, what’s the issue? If not, why the concern?
I didn't really give it much thought to be honest, I was liking a page to find out what you were about. For me, being a member is a more active process. But it's your organisation not mine so I guess you make the rules but you are probably counting people who don't regard themselves as members, That is your right.

As you said elswehere it's not the biggest issue in the world.

Kialos
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Kialos » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:46 pm

Of the OSB selection committee, Carlton Cole is paid by the club and the Hammers Supporters Club receive financial support. Trevor Brooking may or may not receive money from the club, he may receive other patronage such as free invites to games/the boardroom. That leaves the final selector who is so well known that they can't even get her name right. It is Mandy Lane, not Many Lane. Her business provides paid for training and consultancy services to various organisations including the PL. I don't know whether West Ham have engaged her services previously or whether she was paid for being on the selection panel.

I am not criticising any of the individuals concerned, I feel they have been placed in a difficult position. What I am pointing out though is that in order for the claim of "independent" to be made, there has to be no conflict or potential conflict of interest whatsoever. Independent means just that. It is the club who are using that word. "The Club enlisted the help of an independent panel who were responsible for selecting Supporter Representatives from applications the Club received."


They need to invest in a dictionary.

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sanchoz
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by sanchoz » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:55 pm

Kialos wrote:Of the OSB selection committee, Carlton Cole is paid by the club and the Hammers Supporters Club receive financial support. Trevor Brooking may or may not receive money from the club, he may receive other patronage such as free invites to games/the boardroom. That leaves the final selector who is so well known that they can't even get her name right. It is Mandy Lane, not Many Lane. Her business provides paid for training and consultancy services to various organisations including the PL. I don't know whether West Ham have engaged her services previously or whether she was paid for being on the selection panel.

I am not criticising any of the individuals concerned, I feel they have been placed in a difficult position. What I am pointing out though is that in order for the claim of "independent" to be made, there has to be no conflict or potential conflict of interest whatsoever. Independent means just that. It is the club who are using that word. "The Club enlisted the help of an independent panel who were responsible for selecting Supporter Representatives from applications the Club received."


They need to invest in a dictionary.
In addition to the above, the club approached the FSF (now FSA) and Supporters Direct before the 2018/19 season and asked them both for advice in how to set up a fan engagement process. Both told the football club what to do (speak to the ISA). The football club ignored this and created their own construct.

As well as the feedback from the SAB, the Club is in dialogue with third-party organisations, including Football Supporters Federation, Supporters Direct, the Premier League, to execute best practice and evolve the process, of which the first proposals were presented and positively received by supporters.
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/201 ... akes-place" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Above is from July 2018. Below is from October 2018 and any mention of the FSF (FSA) and Supporters Direct was dropped:
At the end of the 2017/18 season, the Club initiated a consultation process that saw us meet with supporters on the Supporter Advisory Board on two occasions, as well as meeting with the Premier League and Visit Football (Premier League Quality Assurance Stadium Scheme) to develop several platforms for meaningful engagement with our supporters.
https://www.whufc.com/news/articles/201 ... e-your-say" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Up the Junction
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:01 pm

Good work, sanch. :thup:

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Wembley1966
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Wembley1966 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:32 pm

They're not very good at interpreting Premier League rules. The Club still don't have a family section despite it being a Premier League requirement:

  • Section R: Supporter Relations
    R.7. Each Club shall provide an area of its Stadium for the exclusive use of family groups
    and junior supporters.

https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws ... igital.pdf

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Big George
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Big George » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:35 pm

Wembley1966 wrote:They're not very good at interpreting Premier League rules. The Club still don't have a family section despite it being a Premier League requirement:

  • Section R: Supporter Relations
    R.7. Each Club shall provide an area of its Stadium for the exclusive use of family groups
    and junior supporters.

https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws ... igital.pdf
They claimed at he reservation centre that the whole ground will be family friendly. they are trying to hike prices in 1-3 to force kids into the lower bands.

The PL really haven't got the gumption to take on clubs in favour of fans.

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Up the Junction
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:50 pm

Wembley1966 wrote:They're not very good at interpreting Premier League rules. The Club still don't have a family section despite it being a Premier League requirement.
For the record I took this up with Karren Brady at a previous meeting. Her words (I paraphrase) were "the entire stadium is family friendly."

This was during our first season in Stratford, which as you will recall was marred by punch-ups left, right and centre, with plenty of kids getting caught in the crossfire.

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sanchoz
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by sanchoz » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:06 pm

Wembley1966 wrote:They're not very good at interpreting Premier League rules. The Club still don't have a family section despite it being a Premier League requirement:

  • Section R: Supporter Relations
    R.7. Each Club shall provide an area of its Stadium for the exclusive use of family groups
    and junior supporters.

https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws ... igital.pdf
Ask the club where the designated family section is, if you don't like the answer then contact the Independent Football Ombudsman:

https://www.theifo.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Wembley1966
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Wembley1966 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:14 pm

^^^ It has been asked, but not taken further. Not stated in the current rules, but it used to state in the Club's regulations at The Boleyn that an adult in a family area must be accompanied by a junior ticket holder. After pointing that out with relation to the OS, they stopped saying that the whole ground was a family area. They then came back with some spurious claim that an area in the BM Upper was the family area but would never elaborate exactly where - they're still looking for it.

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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Marlow Vaderman » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:49 am

This is exactly the kind of smoke and mirrors that these people thrive on. They are like politicians who can speak eloquently for hours without actually saying anything. When pressed they fall back to a well drilled and rehearsed spiel about world class stadiums and successfully migrating.. we have to hold these people to account NOW..
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The Moth
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by The Moth » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:23 pm

Marlow Vaderman wrote:we have to hold these people to account NOW..
I agree we need to see the owners held to account on specific matters such as there being no family stand, the lack of genuine supporter consultation, stewarding and match day experience, especially if they are in breach of any governing regulations. I want to see the three of them taken to task on specific lies and promises they made to us prior to moving stadiums. They've got away with too much for too long and so if supporter groups are actively working together to call them out on their bull**** then I am in full support.

Hopefully one day there will be an independent investigation into the sale of the Boleyn too.

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Albie Beck
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Albie Beck » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:34 pm

The Family Area [lack of] is one where they look bang to rights and hopefully it's another issue that HU and WHUISA feel they can work together at holding the club to account on.

Marlow Vaderman
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Marlow Vaderman » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:14 pm

The Moth wrote:
I agree we need to see the owners held to account on specific matters such as there being no family stand, the lack of genuine supporter consultation, stewarding and match day experience, especially if they are in breach of any governing regulations. I want to see the three of them taken to task on specific lies and promises they made to us prior to moving stadiums. They've got away with too much for too long and so if supporter groups are actively working together to call them out on their bull**** then I am in full support.

Hopefully one day there will be an independent investigation into the sale of the Boleyn too.
Moth
I hope one day the truth will be outed for many things with regards our departure from UP.
Until then we must rally the troops, educate those who are blindfolded by the smoke and mirrors or bought with 15 pieces of silver (GSB wouldn’t pay the full 30 pieces offered originally!) and win back the disenfranchised who have walked away. We owe it to our past and tradition but even more so we owe it to our future. The generations yet to come, so they to can have the love and passion that we share for WHU
Time to make a stand..
All Groups.. All bloggers.. All Channels.. All Hammers...
United...

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Wembley1966
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Wembley1966 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:10 pm

Up the Junction wrote:For the record I took this up with Karren Brady at a previous meeting. Her words (I paraphrase) were "the entire stadium is family friendly."

This was during our first season in Stratford, which as you will recall was marred by punch-ups left, right and centre, with plenty of kids getting caught in the crossfire.
12th September 2016:
Link
“The way it’s going, someone is going to end up seriously hurt,” said Graeme Howlett, editor of the Knees Up Mother Brown website. “It’s dangerous. We’ve got so many accounts of fans trading blows, people having to dive on their kids to protect them.

“The two big problems are probably that the migration from Upton Park was not handled as well as it could have been and the second is that there is no family enclosure.”

A West Ham spokesman said the London Stadium did have a family section, with two blocks reserved in the Bobby Moore stand, and thus complied with Premier League guidelines.
Reiterated by Brady herself on 5th October 2016:
Supporter Feedback Forum Minutes - no longer available on the Club website but available forever at:
Link
KB said the London Stadium housed a Family Section in the Bobby Moore upper however, she explained that the Club has 10,000 Under-16 Season Ticket Holders, most of whom have one or two Adults sitting with them, so they cannot all be seated in a Family Section.

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taffhammer
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by taffhammer » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:41 pm

To sum up, she either is a puppet who fronts the whole show for a huge wage and knows nothing of what goes on or she is a liar.

Marlow Vaderman
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Marlow Vaderman » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:25 am

taffhammer wrote:To sum up, she either is a puppet who fronts the whole show for a huge wage and knows nothing of what goes on or she is a liar.
Or even the pantomime villain!!

But on a serious note.
Great to see the fan groups uniting behind the first common cause. HU Man Tross done some excellent digging and wrote a great piece several weeks ago around this issue. You can read it here

http://www.kumb.com/article.php?id=4344

Join Hammers United today..

Stand together and say no more...
https://www.hammersunited.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by Up the Junction on Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Reproduced article replaced by link.

Marlow Vaderman
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Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Marlow Vaderman » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:37 am

What will you say when one day Socios tokens can buy you away ticket above CL or ST holder priority. Don’t laugh.. with this lot nothing is beyond the realms of decency..
#bemorethanafan
Stand together and say no more...
https://www.hammersunited.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Other supporter groups are available (but join ours first!)
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