Hammers United Inc. New Season, same goals.

Does exactly what it says on the tin - the forum for football-related discussion.

Moderators: chalks, the pink palermo, -DL-, Gnome, Rio, bristolhammerfc

Post Reply
User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 32848
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:12 pm

Phil

I didn't bring them up

or say that they would probably admit that they got it wrong..which given opportunities - they never did

why do you insist on trying to sweep it under the rug ??????????

if people don't want us to comment on them, don't put their name in a thread associated with a new "fan club."

User avatar
Phil S
Posts: 5117
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: Sarfend

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Phil S » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:19 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Phil

I didn't bring them up

or say that they would probably admit that they got it wrong..which given opportunities - they never did

why do you insist on trying to sweep it under the rug ??????????

if people don't want us to comment on them, don't put their name in a thread associated with a new "fan club."
Do we have to dissect it or move on?

User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 32848
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:27 pm

I give up Phil

one of your blokes brings it up, people pull the group up for it and you endlessly want to move on

then don't ask for support if you want to be selective about the support that you want - you seem to be alienating your prospective base

I won't post on here any more and I won't support your organisation either


cheers

User avatar
Phil S
Posts: 5117
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: Sarfend

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Phil S » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:32 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:I give up Phil

one of your blokes brings it up, people pull the group up for it and you endlessly want to move on

then don't ask for support if you want to be selective about the support that you want - you seem to be alienating your prospective base

I won't post on here any more and I won't support your organisation either


cheers
or you could read the post by Kialos and perhaps see that not everyone shares your opinion on that post and can read it in a different way?

User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 32848
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:14 pm

no Phil

last post ..honest

if your lot deal with difficult questions with "let's move on" without addressing the issue, to me it doesn't bode well for the future.

get a tough question from the "floor" - let's move on

brilliant

don't want to answer more tough questions ?

move on.....move on...

great way to attract new membership Phil - especially as your group brought it up - not like I just came up with a random question out of the blue...

like I said Phil I'm done.

User avatar
Phil S
Posts: 5117
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: Sarfend

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Phil S » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:21 pm

you clearly didn't read my posts within the quote

I'll highlight them so you can see them

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:
did we ever get an accounting about the money collected ? That is nothing to do with Hammers United

until that comes out publicly, there should not be any inclusion of them in anything. or even then. they threatened people. Agreed

and to be honest, as mushy says, you're damaging your group's integrity by even making a statement like that. A little harsh imo, he's hardly supporting them, he's just saying (I think) that they got people together..showed them the way.

User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 32848
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:28 pm

Phil

for the very last time:

I don't expect HU to answer for RWHFAG - why even associate a post about them ? suggesting that if we ask them, they would admit they made mistakes ?
rhetorical

do you honestly think bringing them into the discussion would make HU more or less palatable to potential members ?
rhetorical

you can ask groups to join "more voices, more attention."
rhetorical

using them as an example isn't exactly a redeeming quality is it now, considering what they did?
rhetorical

remember you're the group that on page 8 here, in response to some very valid and politely asked questions, told that someone "we frankly don't care what you think."

talk about own goals and gaffs.

I'm sure you appeal to loads of folks and good luck to attaining your goals.

it will be without my support.

User avatar
Phil S
Posts: 5117
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: Sarfend

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Phil S » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:05 am

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Phil

for the very last time:

I don't expect HU to answer for RWHFAG - why even associate a post about them ? suggesting that if we ask them, they would admit they made mistakes ? I already said it wasn't a wise thing to say
rhetorical

do you honestly think bringing them into the discussion would make HU more or less palatable to potential members ? No, I already said it wasn't a wise thing to say
rhetorical

you can ask groups to join "more voices, more attention." No idea what you're getting at
rhetorical

using them as an example isn't exactly a redeeming quality is it now, considering what they did? No, I already said it wasn't a wise thing to say.
rhetorical

remember you're the group that on page 8 here, in response to some very valid and politely asked questions, told that someone "we frankly don't care what you think." Early days and under a bit of provocation from certain people here and on other sites. It was a bit surprising that a group who want to help were getting some quite nasty comments. I'm sure he regrets saying it though. Added to that it may have been an own goal and gaff but he's done more than any West Ham United fan I know for the fans..and he paid the ultimate price

talk about own goals and gaffs.

I'm sure you appeal to loads of folks and good luck to attaining your goals. I'm sure HU will

it will be without my support. HU never had your support, never.
As for sweeping things under the carpet and avoiding difficult questions, nah, I didn't see any difficult question. All I saw was a silly unwise comment which you chose to dissect and add to for some drama.

This is me speaking on behalf of me, not HU. The reason for that will become clear.

I'm glad you're not a judge.

Northbank Bar
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:09 pm

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Northbank Bar » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:58 am

Since Hammers United founded we have stuck to a policy of neither criticising RWHFAG or WHISA.Sometimes I fear this costs us.A certain well known poster on here for example takes every opportunity to criticise or question us yet we do not respond in kind.Over the weekend we were heavily criticised on our facebook site for defending criticism of WHUISA.We try to adopt the high moral ground by not criticising other groups.

mushy
Posts: 13938
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:17 pm
Location: Kumb Poster of the year 2009

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by mushy » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:09 pm

Phil S wrote:
A bit dramatic there mushy, he's hardly defending them
It probably wasn't the wisest wording but come on..
Phil
Marlow said mistakes were made and they would be the first to admit it.
He also said they showed the way.
Two statements that in my eyes are clear nonsense.
No drama here whatsoever, but perhaps we need to let Marlow explain rather then jumping in trying to second guess what he was thinking eh?
Reasoned debate is what this forum is all about and I feel I am well within my rights (as indeed you are) to highlight what I perceive as mistakes. My point being that there is a hell of a lot of ill feeling towards RWHFAG and any mention of them in any other light then condemnation will be seen by some prospective members as a negative.
You could argue from Marlow's original post on this matter that he was actually endorsing their methods, but as I say am sure he is capable of a reasoned explanation.

Northbank Bar
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:09 pm

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Northbank Bar » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:24 pm

Surely he meant by the comment 'they showed the way' that before all the shitstorm at the end they looked like they might achieve something.

User avatar
GaryP
Posts: 12338
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Broken Britain

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by GaryP » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:26 pm

I just read it as a lot of people were prepared to mobilise together (under RWHFG) in a very short space of time. He's hardly going to come on here and call them a bunch of ***** is he. If I am being naive then so be it.

HU have said from the start they don't want to get involved slagging others groups as it defeats the purpose and Brady/OSB wins.

We want a group that doesn't hide behind a load of PR and bluster, but when someone speaks like he would down at the pub it gets picked up on.

As mushy said, now that a couple of people have picked up on the wording, if Marlow clarifies what he meant then all is good.

User avatar
GaryP
Posts: 12338
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Broken Britain

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by GaryP » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:26 pm

Northbank Bar wrote:Surely he meant by the comment 'they showed the way' that before all the shitstorm at the end they looked like they might achieve something.
Exactly.

User avatar
bristolhammerfc
Posts: 8885
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: In the city of Brunel, balloons and banksy

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by bristolhammerfc » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:37 pm

I don't feel that HU should answer for the deplorable behaviour of those proposing to represent fans in opposition to the club. I think it's a refreshing change of directions and I am not sure that WHUISA would have rebooted if there wasn't this group in existence. There are still questions to be answered by those seeking to represent fans previously.

However,

I think there needs to be a clear line drawn between the behaviours of a group that both drew together then destroyed the good will of ordinary supporters.

A clear acknowledgement that Supporters seeking honest answers were treated with abuse and a pledge to treat all fans with dignity and respect.

A clear acknowledgement and commitment that any money raised will be spent in a way that is clear and transparent and not used for anything other than supporting positive change within West Ham Utd. No trips to Lazio or propping up private enterprise.

A clear acknowledgement and commitment that anyone proven to have engaged in but not limited to homophobic, racist, sexist behaviour or threatening other members will face immediate expulsion with an opportunity to appeal.

This would go some way to assuring the tone of the group going forward will be one that seeks to unify the supporters and not foster suspicion and division

Shouldn't be too difficult and leaves everyone clear.

Northbank Bar
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:09 pm

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Northbank Bar » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:56 pm

Bristol.Thanks for your comments.
You will appreciate such a statement would have to be endorsed by H.U.Committee.
However a few quick points.
1.Of course we condemn supporters seeking answers treated with abuse.We treat all fans with dignity and respect and will continue to do so.
2.No money will ever be asked for or received as per our initial statement.
3.Any homophobic,racist,sexist or threatening behaviour is not and will not be tolerated.

Thanks again.

User avatar
bristolhammerfc
Posts: 8885
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: In the city of Brunel, balloons and banksy

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by bristolhammerfc » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:53 pm

There you go, simple. :thup:

Marlow Vaderman
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:04 pm

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Marlow Vaderman » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:28 pm

Kialos wrote:I think we all have our own views on what took place and I have been as vocal as any in my condemnation of it but I am assuming the fairly non committal comment is an attempt by HU to put a line under things and move on. They are a new group, working hard to do what is best for fans. I am cutting them slack in their wish to look forward not back.
Sorry but being very busy at work has kept me off here for a few days.
With regards the comment above it’s pretty much spot on.
A few words in explaination.
Before the rapid rise of the action group I had lost my way a little as a WH supporter. Languishing up behind the screen in block 250 I was feeling more and more alienated by the club that I’d loved and the final nail was being berated by “supporters” for such heinous crimes as standing and or singing Bubbles. I signed up to RWHF early, liked what I was hearing, and for me the rollercoaster ride of exploding membership numbers and momentum, followed by the formation of the wider “action group” with other fan groups gave me my West Ham mojo back. I was ready to march like many others and was devistated when the march was cancelled. Our world renowned supporters had mobilised and in doing so forced the club to act.
So when I say RWHF showed the way I was referring to how the threat of 20k pairs of Adidas Gazelles (other shoes are available) brought the board to attention.
I said mistakes were made. They certainly were. I’m sure no one on here could argue that point.
And yes, I’m sure that there are people who were/are involved with the group (Members or Admins) that would love to turn back the clock and do things differently.
Hopefully this clarifies the sentiment behind the post. As for Hammers United I hope we have shown that we are learning the ropes fast and conducting ourselves with dignity, often in the face of abuse from other quarters and showing that we really do want to change things for all supporters.
Lastly here’s a thing. I’m a normal guy from a working class background. I didn’t study English at university and I sure as hell harbour no illusions about a career In journalism. I won’t hide from your questions but before jumping just read anything I post twice with that in mind.
Hope this helps
MV ⚒⚒

User avatar
GaryP
Posts: 12338
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:14 pm
Location: Broken Britain

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by GaryP » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:48 pm

Marlow Vaderman wrote:
Lastly here’s a thing. I’m a normal guy from a working class background. I didn’t study English at university and I sure as hell harbour no illusions about a career In journalism. I won’t hide from your questions but before jumping just read anything I post twice with that in mind.
Hope this helps
MV ⚒⚒
:thup:

Online
User avatar
brooking_1980
Posts: 760
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:04 am

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by brooking_1980 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:20 am

Very good, that's what we all want, some sort of statement to show the Board our feelings and maybe things can change for the better.

Right now, Sully must be wringhing his hands in glee with any in-fighting that goes on, between all the disparate West Ham fans Groups. He hides behind his OSB, knowing fans arguing with each other is no threat whatsoever.

If we can unify attention, focus on important matters, bring that to the Board in a proper manner, that's surely the only pragmatic method available to us to get things done, please lets do it.

User avatar
Danny's Dyer Acting
Posts: 1563
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm

Re: Hammers United..No Summer Holiday for hard working HU gang..

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:10 am

May be the wrong place for this but I get the feeling people that frequent this thread or at least read it are some of the same that have engaged with David Baker (Ubergruppenfuhrer, West Ham OSB Division). Seems there's an interesting little inconsistency in some of the lines he's marching out in conversations on Twitter.

- He wants the club to have a strong/successful independent association like they have at Liverpool or Spurs.
- This requires they engage with the club.
- As chairman of the OSB, why doesn't he mobilise his 10, 15 (?) strong board and insist on a motion that any FSF affiliated groups are granted a meeting with the club on a quarterly basis?

Post Reply