Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

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Hammer1972
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Hammer1972 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:21 am

Georgee Paris wrote:I wonder how the top female boxers would get on against men of the same weight.
"how far off do people think we are from having the first female boss in the Premier League?"

"But a woman can't even beat up a man...."

:P

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Hammer1972
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Hammer1972 » Thu May 23, 2019 10:24 am

fmgod wrote:Because in most cases higher testosterone is linked with leadership, there will be the odd anomaly but on the whole, higher test, more dominance, etc leads itself to leadership qualities
So successful female leaders are an 'anomoly' ?

I really hope some of you lot don't have daughters....

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Johnny Byrne's Boots
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Thu May 23, 2019 10:45 am

Has a woman ever applied for a PL manager job? How will we know unless they do?

Given what PL clubs spend on transfer fees and wages in order to gain success, if one of them thought a particular manager would give them an edge then they'd appoint him OR HER, it would be foolish not to.

Just apply, list your achievements on your CV and tell them why you would be better than the other applicants.

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HalfTimePie
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by HalfTimePie » Thu May 23, 2019 10:55 am

Didn't the US women's world cup winning team lose to a bunch of 14/15 year olds? Could be wrong but I remember something like this happening.

Longaz
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Longaz » Thu May 23, 2019 10:57 am

The most a woman could have on her cv in football terms is winning the Women's Super League or International success. England and the top 2 teams in in WSL are currently managed by men. Chelsea finished third with a woman. If Pellegrini quit this summer. How many can honestly say they'd be happy and confident going into next season with Emma Haynes (Chelsea Manager) at the helm. She won the league with Chelsea in 2015 and 2018 and guided them to the last 4 of the champions league so has been successful. It's not necessary because she is a woman but rather that she's only managed a woman's team that would make me have my doubts, West Ham women's team manager Matt Beard guided them to an f.a cup final in he's first year, I'd be equally unimpressed if he was made West Ham mens team manager.

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Hammer1972
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Hammer1972 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:07 am

HalfTimePie wrote:Didn't the US women's world cup winning team lose to a bunch of 14/15 year olds? Could be wrong but I remember something like this happening.
I give up...

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Johnny Byrne's Boots
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Thu May 23, 2019 11:10 am

Longaz: Exactly, pay your dues. Get experience managing in the lower tiers of the pyramid and if you're good enough you'll work your way up.

From my point of view it has nothing to do with gender, just ability.

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stu1
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by stu1 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:20 am

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: I wouldn't disagree on the standard at all but is there a case to be made that a female coach might also be being held back by the standard of players she can access?

Male managers in league 2 aren't getting more out of those players because they are still in league 2. Could a top PL manager get more out of them or would they need to change the players they have?

I don't watch enough to know if there are any innovative female coaches, people doing something different to win. It seems to be even more about buying the best players than the mens game tbh. If there are female managers that have something special about them then the logical move would be to involve them in age group football at PL clubs. We may find their ideas work better with better players as well.
For sure an innovative women coach could be held back by the standard of players she’s managing but I come back to my point, proving you are a top coach in the women’s game is miles away from having the necessary experience to coach in the prem.

If in 10 years there’s a women who’s coached youth teams and men’s teams at top clubs working under top managers, who’s seen how it’s done at the highest level, then I’d agree there’s no reason she shouldn’t be considered for a job in the prem. However to pretend coaching in the women’s game prepares for managing in the prem is laughable in my opinion.

It’s equivalent to saying if someone has managed a business no matter how big or small, has the necessary experience to managed a FTSE 100 company because they’ve proved they can manage.

The levels of the men’s game to the women’s are world apart. If a women wants a top job in the prem she needs to learn her trade a few levels above a standard with is comparable to non league at a push.
Last edited by stu1 on Thu May 23, 2019 11:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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hammers92
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by hammers92 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:21 am

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Longaz: Exactly, pay your dues. Get experience managing in the lower tiers of the pyramid and if you're good enough you'll work your way up.

From my point of view it has nothing to do with gender, just ability.
That doesn't happen in the men's game does it? People get jobs left right and centre who aren't qualified. A good example would be Gary Neville somehow getting a job at Valencia and it was a car crash.

A woman can do exactly the same job as a man in managing a football club, it's nonsense to suggest they can't imo. It's pretty much the same idea as black coaches not getting an opportunity to be selected for interview. Sol Campbell, someone who has won a fair bit in his time, has to start off at Macclessfield when let's say Gianfranco Zola, gets the West Ham job in the premier league.

Football is run by old white men who refuse to open up opportunities in the game.

I'm not suggesting for one moment Emma Hayes is qualified to manage Chelsea but I bet she'll make a good go of it in the championship.

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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by fmgod » Thu May 23, 2019 11:28 am

That old chestnut :lol: It's like sixth form politics, even most African nations employ "white" managers for their national football teams, whose racist now?

To me, colour doesn't even come into it and same with 95% of people/businesses/clubs, they will employ the best candidate who gives the greatest chance of success/profit.

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hammers92
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by hammers92 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:33 am

fmgod wrote:That old chestnut :lol: It's like sixth form politics, even most African nations employ "white" managers for their national football teams, whose racist now?

To me, colour doesn't even come into it and same with 95% of people/businesses/clubs, they will employ the best candidate who gives the greatest chance of success/profit.
That's the way it should be - but that doesn't apply in football. Do football clubs employ the best candidate all the time?

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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by fmgod » Thu May 23, 2019 11:35 am

hammers92 wrote: That's the way it should be - but that doesn't apply in football. Do football clubs employ the best candidate all the time?
That applies to every job whether it be a Tesco storeroom worker or CEO of PWC, also best is very open to interpretation.

Football clubs are businesses now and 99% of the time they will employ the candidate that brings them the best chance of success/profit

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Johnny Byrne's Boots
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Thu May 23, 2019 11:36 am

Neville and Zola, two good examples of what happens when you appoint for reasons other than ability.

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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by fmgod » Thu May 23, 2019 11:38 am

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Neville and Zola, two good examples of what happens when you appoint for reasons other than ability.
Two massive worldwide names with god know how many accolades to their name too. Neville was captain too from memory.

People were putting forward Neville for all sorts of jobs
Didn't rate him as a manager but Zola as Chelsea assistant just come third and reached two finals

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Doc H Ball
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Doc H Ball » Thu May 23, 2019 11:42 am

Turning the argument on its head for a minute, who thinks that any half competent female couldn't have done the job with us that the Grave Digger did? f*** me my wife could've had a better shift and she thinks a wild tackle is me after 4 Stellas.

Meritocracy? Don't make me laugh - half these blokes are on a gravy train on a loop.

Won't be as long as some think I reckon. Quite a lot of kudos and publicity (which equals money) will go to the first sizeable Club to employ a female coach, even as a number 2.

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TheHandOfDog
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by TheHandOfDog » Thu May 23, 2019 11:42 am

Until there is mixed football teams, or a female coach that has worked their way up the leagues, it isn't going to happen i don't reckon. There are so many more qualified men to take these jobs in the mens game right now. I do see it changing long term, it will be interesting. Some women are obviously capable of keeping a team in line the way a Big Sam would but they will have to earn these jobs by showing merit in the mens game first.

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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by fmgod » Thu May 23, 2019 11:44 am

Whose gravedigger? Avram? As much as he was an awful manager as he has still won an awful lot before joining us

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hammers92
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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by hammers92 » Thu May 23, 2019 11:44 am

TheHandOfDog wrote:Until there is mixed football teams, or a female coach that has worked their way up the leagues, it isn't going to happen i don't reckon. There are so many more qualified men to take these jobs in the mens game right now. I do see it changing long term, it will be interesting. Some women are obviously capable of keeping a team in line the way a Big Sam would but they will have to earn these jobs by showing merit in the mens game first.
Phil Neville was appointed England ladies manager? What did he ever do in the women's game, or managerial career? You could argue it should have been a woman that was appointed.

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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Clacton-ammer » Thu May 23, 2019 11:46 am

The way you view it FM is a credit to you, you believe best person gets job, and I completely agree it should be that. I think in many industries that is probably the case now, but do you believe football lives like that? You don't look at it as an old boys closed network?

Many of the best managers were not world beaters on the pitch - that tells you it's not about technique/skill/strength, it's all about what's in your suede. So that means anyone can be a top coach/manager If they have the skill set.

I don't know, but women/black managers may not have wanted the top job for many years, and now more want a shout at it, or they felt they were never going to get an opportunity due to who they are and feel now there is that chance, I have no idea, but look at football, it's pretty much a closed shop.

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Re: Female Manager in the PL (non WHU)

Post by Doc H Ball » Thu May 23, 2019 11:49 am

fmgod wrote:Whose gravedigger? Avram? As much as he was an awful manager as he has still won an awful lot before joining us
Yes, Lurch.

None of those jobs really qualified him for the one here frankly. We employed him on the basis of his stint with Chelsea (which a nodding dog could've done) and getting Pompey to the Cup final despite relegating them.

Apparently he did f*** all and was as inspiring as a dead rabbit at a kids' birthday party.

No reason to think an experienced female coach even from a low level could've done any the worse.

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