Just how big could West Ham be?

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goa127
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by goa127 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:58 pm

Thank you Wembley, that graphic shows the task facing us. However, it all starts with success on the pitch. If Pellers can continue the good work and push us further up things may start to happen. Although we had a bit of glory in the bygone past, we've never been considered one of the 'big' London clubs. Our big claim to fame was our commitment to attacking football at a time when other teams were grinding out 0-0. Unfortunately we lost that mantle under BFS and were even labelled 'long ball merchants' for a while.
How big could we be? Well, massive, but it's not going to happen overnight, if ever.

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OohAahButler
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by OohAahButler » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:15 pm

It all depends on when exactly our beloved owners are prepared to sell up.

When they do, I think that we are as ripe as anyone for becoming a billionaire's plaything:

- London based. There's a (valid) reason why it's on the badge now
- Big ground / attendances
- 'Iconic' ground (they won't care if lots of us hate it compared to the old gaff - we still fill it)
- Dirt cheap rent
- A bit of history

We'll never be another Man U or Liverpool because we don't have the established global recognition, but there's no reason why we shouldn't be another Chelski - our historical reach is at least as big as theirs.

Whether we want that or not is a different question.

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warp
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by warp » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:18 pm

~832 m^3

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by WHU_Del » Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:50 pm

I've been wondering about how a club becomes massive.
Let's look at Liverpool and Manchester United, for example.
They'd had a little bit of success pre-WW2 but became incredibly popular before being really successful. And *something* must have done it.

Arsenal and Huddersfield won three consecutive titles.
Wolves won three in six years (as well as a second and a third) and beat Honved live on TV.
Tottenham won a Double and a European trophy before either Liverpool or Man U.
We won a European trophy before either Liverpool or Man U.

Yet none of those clubs have become as big worldwide as either Liverpool or Manchester United.

An then I wondered about outside influences.
For example, there was a massive upsurge in the ownership of televisions for the Coronation, and Man Utd won the League a few years after in 1956, 1957 and then had the tragedy of Munich in 1958.
As for Liverpool, there was a lot of focus on the city in the early '60s thanks to the music scene. And it just so happens that the football club won the League in 1964 and 1966, and the FA Cup in 1965.

It can't have hurt... :think:

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bubbles1966
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by bubbles1966 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:15 pm

As has already been said, it's all about what happens on the pitch.

There seems to be a fairly negative and short sighted (imo) view about qualifying for the Europa League, and what it means financially and as a building block.

Four places up the league, competition money and a handful of full houses soon sticks another £20m-£30m in the kitty. One or two more good players and it's better than poodling around in 11th, 12th for the players etc.

It also offers some opportunity to retain good squad players and develop good young ones. It helps keep them match sharp too.

Then you do it again, and again and at some point there will be a gap and an opportunity to exploit.

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by mushy » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:57 pm

So bubbles, do you think that the two qualifications we have had for the Europa League have done us any good whatsoever? I

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:00 pm

mushy wrote:So bubbles, do you think that the two qualifications we have had for the Europa League have done us any good whatsoever? I
We haven't yet
Qualifying for the Europa League is a very different situation to getting knocked out in qualifying

Unless you get taken over by an Emirate like Man city, it is the only way to progress. Qualifying once may not make a difference, or even twice, but if you can start to do it on a fairly regular basis it will

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bubbles1966
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by bubbles1966 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:05 pm

mushy wrote:So bubbles, do you think that the two qualifications we have had for the Europa League have done us any good whatsoever? I
We haven't qualified properly and we haven't taken it seriously anyway, but the club made a few million extra out of it each year.

35,000 turned up to watch Lusitanos.

Imagine if we ever actually got into a proper group.

Spurs' latest success certainly needed an investment in players about 15 years ago, but year after year of Thursday night football raked in money for them, blooded their kids and kept their squad fully engaged.

Our unwillingness to see the value in this is really bizarre.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mushy
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by mushy » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:05 pm

Yes you are correct of course, my point being that the only competition our board seem to take seriously is the PL.

Has there been many English teams that have managed to take the route you have suggested?

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm

bubbles1966 wrote: We haven't qualified properly and we haven't taken it seriously anyway, but the club made a few million extra out of it each year.

35,000 turned up to watch Lusitanos.

Imagine if they ever actually got into a proper group.

Spurs' latest success certainly needed an investment in players about 15 years ago, but year after year of Thursday night football raked in money for them, blooded their kids and kept their squad fully engaged.

Our unwillingness to see the value in this is really bizarre.
i think we did take it seriously second time round, just ****ed it up through poor management and individual errors. We should have beaten Astra away, and at home we had countless chances until they got one on the break from a poor error

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bubbles1966
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by bubbles1966 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:09 pm

mushy wrote:Yes you are correct of course, my point being that the only competition our board seem to take seriously is the PL.

Has there been many English teams that have managed to take the route you have suggested?
Tottenham are the obvious one.

Clearly, the number of places is limited, but they have shown that if a club can nail it down year after year it can work.

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by bubbles500 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:31 pm

United and Liverpool becoming big clubs is pretty interesting. There’s a lot as well do to with timing which is very prevalent in Arsenal and Chelsea African following which really swells social media followers. But come back to that. I think Liverpool is pretty straight forward they had a build up of success in 60s but 70/80s they were utterly dominant also winning 4 European cups. United is a bit more interesting they only won 5 league titles pre fergie in 47 years. Crazy they’ve actually only really had 2 successful managers in 70 years. I think Munich played a big part otherwise I can’t really think why they’d have become so big in comparison to say wolves or Leeds.
Arsenal and Chelsea real success 90/00s coincides with the emergence of the internet and same time African players becoming world stars. Hence them picking up a lot of the African market. Not sure of exact social media numbers but sure Chelsea and Arsenal really dwarf West Ham and spurs. But in real terms I’d even guess West Ham and spurs may well have the most real supporters in London.

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by goa127 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:51 pm

Man united gained their nationwide following post Munich which happened to coincide with a big increase in football support post-1966, and the birth of MOTD and live European matches. Man U also carried the banner for attacking football like ourselves. When I first started going to West Ham (1968) they were seen as our great rivals

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by Colours never run » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:07 pm

Up the Junction wrote:That's the era I was thinking of, Bob. Can it be done again?

I don't see why not with the right investment and a Board willing to take us there.
What quantifies being the right investment though?

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by BondsoBob » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:22 pm

We were well on the way to becoming a 'big' club in the mid 60's but due to a lack of vision and investment from the board it didn't quite happen.
Just to recap the mid 60's. FA cup winners in 1964 (when it meant something). European cup winners cup winners in 1965, when that was a very prestigious competition, and semi finalists in 1966. League cup finalists in 1966, and semi finalists in 1967, when that was first starting to be taken seriously. World cup 1966? Say no more. And let's not forget West Ham were one of the first clubs to regularly play exhibition matches in the USA when football was being heavily promoted over there.
I went to school in Battersea, south London, in the 1960's and 70's. The amount of West Ham supporters there was phenomenal.
We could and should have kicked on to become something special.

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bubbles1966
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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by bubbles1966 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:27 pm

One little known fact is that in 1975, West Ham had the highest attendances in London.

(also, three of the six leading scorers in top flight football - I'm guessing post war - played for us.....)
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by BondsoBob » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:35 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:One little known fact is that in 1975, West Ham had the highest attendances in London.
Yes, that's true. And we had a massive away following (in those pre all ticket days).

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by Chip Korea » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:39 pm

Pointless question IMO.

Pretty much any PL or championship team could become massive with the right owners.

Given we're a London club with a massive stadium there's no reason why we couldn't be the biggest team in the country (Man City managed it without London or a 60k stadium). If we can become the biggest team in the country then over time we might challenge Real and Barca for biggest team in the world.

Realistically we are a Top 10 English club* (just), with more potential than most outside the Top 6

I say this because of where we finished last year (10th), our average place over 50 years (10th), and our reasonably good position in the "longest time spent in the top division" table (8th).

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Re: Just how big could West Ham be?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:44 pm

BondsoBob wrote:We were well on the way to becoming a 'big' club in the mid 60's but due to a lack of vision and investment from the board it didn't quite happen.
Just to recap the mid 60's. FA cup winners in 1964 (when it meant something). European cup winners cup winners in 1965, when that was a very prestigious competition, and semi finalists in 1966. League cup finalists in 1966, and semi finalists in 1967, when that was first starting to be taken seriously. World cup 1966? Say no more. And let's not forget West Ham were one of the first clubs to regularly play exhibition matches in the USA when football was being heavily promoted over there.
I went to school in Battersea, south London, in the 1960's and 70's. The amount of West Ham supporters there was phenomenal.
We could and should have kicked on to become something special.
And yet whilst all that cup success was happening we couldn't finish higher than 8th and only had two or three top half finishes. Very poor IMHO

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