VAR - yes or no ?

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warp
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by warp » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:32 pm

wolf359 wrote:NO - it will just favour the big teams and will be used as another tool to preserve the status quo
Up the Junction wrote:How?
atletico madrid - juventus, first leg of CL quarter finals. atletico 2-0 up, chiellini flops while morata heads the third in (or something similar). goal was ruled out but that was a blatant dive. can't remember much noise about it either.
wasn't there another iffy handball in a man utd - psg game?

firstly, you can choose whether to use VAR or not. the rule states that it has to be an "obvious" mistake by the ref. which is subjective in itself. that allows to review more episodes against the big teams.

secondly, you can decide that there was "contact", cos there always is, and then arbitrarily and subjectively determine that contact was enough for a foul. or wasn't.

the same mechanisms that skew decisions towards the big teams now will apply with VAR.

if anything, the presence of someone without a face in a control room makes it easier to script a game, or a whole season.
Last edited by warp on Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Coops
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Coops » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:34 pm

No from me.
It takes far too long and takes the spontaneous excitement out of a goal celebration.
I am sure there is technology that can instantly tell if a person is offside etc, if then money needs to be invested in developing it.

Waiting several minutes while they make up their minds is not what I want as a fan.
Every game having 7 minutes plus added on is not something I want either (especially for an evening KO).

Also the idea that VAR will favour those outside of the big 6 is a pipe dream. It will still favour the media darlings, probably more so, and those 7 minutes will become 5 or 10 depending on who is winning.

I am all for technology improving the game but not at the expense of having long stoppages.
There must be a better way.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Gsbgsb » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:36 pm

Thing is with TV etc every decision is being reviewed.

For as long as this happens then I think it is inevitable.

Absent VAR had the roles been reversed and Holland scored that 2nd “goal” we would be witnessing hours of TV bleating we had been robed, newspapers reciting everything from the Lampard “goal” to the Eurovision Song Contest as to why the world hates us. The majority would be screaming you have the technology use it.

After to Liverpool games we had dozens of posts on here as to how it was not fair, bias etc. It was a mistake, thankfully Origi effort did not go in or they would have won the league because of a second one in the same game. VAR should reduce (not eliminate) the number of mistakes made.

For me I would stagger its introduction, questions of fact first - offside and mistaken identity - get those as fast and accurate as possible and the fans comfortable with them (as they are with goal line technology) before moving on to opinion (penalty etc).

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Aceface » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:37 pm

Persil Tickets wrote:VAR will take away that moment of euphoria when you score the winner in a really tight, important game.
It won't be needed for most goals, so that type of moment will continue to exist.

Equally, people tend to only imagine being on the 'wrong' end of it, but watching, say, Alli and Son have their pre-prepared handshake celebration interrupted by an announcement that their goal is overruled will introduce a new type of euphoria as a partial offset when you're on the 'right' side of it.

In other sports the use of it evolves over time – in somewhere where it's matured like cricket it's now been set up to increase the drama rather than decrease it. It'll never be as bad as it is in the first season.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Persil Tickets » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:42 pm

Aceface wrote
It won't be needed for most goals, so that type of moment will continue to exist.
I think you are right in that it won't be needed for most goals but you still won't know for sure until they kick off again for the restart. Teams will surround the ref after nearly every goal in the hope that VAR shows something.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by rtwhufc83 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:43 pm

No

The beautiful game has been doing pretty well for the past 100+ years without it.

Another nail in the coffin

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westlondonhammer
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by westlondonhammer » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:44 pm

Yes

It is in it's infancy. It will get better over time...

Society is evolving... football should follow it.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by uptonparkhurst » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:46 pm

Coops wrote: Also the idea that VAR will favour those outside of the big 6 is a pipe dream. It will still favour the media darlings, probably more so, and those 7 minutes will become 5 or 10 depending on who is winning.
I agree.
I remember after that Derby goal in the Cup (against Southampton?) was disallowed after a review that
took ages, the pundits said afterwards that if you can't agree after a few seconds that the ref's decision was wrong then go with the ref's decision. "Clear and obvious error" blah,blah..

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Aceface » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:48 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:For me I would stagger its introduction, questions of fact first - offside and mistaken identity - get those as fast and accurate as possible and the fans comfortable with them (as they are with goal line technology) before moving on to opinion (penalty etc).
To be fair, there is something in that.

Football supporters as a group are some of the most conservative of any sport. Nostalgia and my father's-father type thinking arguably has a much bigger pull than it does in a lot of other sports. It's not a natural home for futurists. So staggered implementation makes sense in that respect.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by rtwhufc83 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:49 pm

It is in it's infancy. It will get better over time...

Society is evolving... football should follow it.[/quote]

Somethings are best left alone

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by fjthegrey » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:51 pm

Aceface wrote:It won't be needed for most goals, so that type of moment will continue to exist.
If they can call players back out onto the pitch after the half time whistle has blown, to make them take a penalty that was spotted 30 seconds prior to the whistle going, then you'll NEVER be sure if a goal will stand till the review happens surely?

If they go back, analyse the passage of play leading up to the goal which could be over a minute long and find something innocuous with which to overturn it, we'll soon be waiting on the big screen to tell us we can celebrate rather than living in that moment. Or at least it feels that way to me.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Aceface » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:52 pm

Persil Tickets wrote: I think you are right in that it won't be needed for most goals but you still won't know for sure until they kick off again for the restart. Teams will surround the ref after nearly every goal in the hope that VAR shows something.
Is any of this that much different than when a referee wanders over to the linesman to have a discussion on a tight call now?

After he's pushed away all the players that are surrounding him, asked the lino to repeat himself a few times due to the crowd noise and then minced back onto the pitch to signal what the decision is, you have uncertainty over the goal and time passing even under the current set-up.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Knighter10WHU » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:53 pm

No - it will take away from the emotion of the game. Soon enough we will not be celebrating goals.

I could maybe accept a more cricket/tennis review based system where each sides get 1-2 challenges per half of football.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by DasNutNock » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:53 pm

I'd rather the tw*ts in charge did something about the player's behaviour towards the officials instead.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Het-Field » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:55 pm

Yes.

The reasons against have never been compelling.

The vast majority of other sports have some form of recall, even amateur ones.

Football is already a very slow game, so it doesn’t make a remarkable difference.

Real life impacts can happen on the back of wrong decisions and calls. The fact that it’s not the same on Hackney Marshes Or what the lads in the pub talk about is irrelevant.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Persil Tickets » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:56 pm

Aceface wrote

Is any of this that much different than when a referee wanders over to the linesman to have a discussion on a tight call now?
I would say yes. If the lino did not have his flag up and the ref has not blown for a foul then the chances of them being successful in any appeal are close to zero. Also I cannot think of one occasion off the top of my head where this happened to us this season. I stand to be corrected.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Aceface » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:58 pm

fjthegrey wrote: If they go back, analyse the passage of play leading up to the goal which could be over a minute long and find something innocuous with which to overturn it, we'll soon be waiting on the big screen to tell us we can celebrate rather than living in that moment. Or at least it feels that way to me.
I guess it's hard to say confidently either way until it's in place, but if there's one thing the PL cares about it's spectacle = money. If it's ruining the game they'll tinker with it until it doesn't.

Anything to keep that sweet, sweet television deal money flowing.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Puff Daddy » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:01 pm

wolf359 wrote:NO - it will just favour the big teams and will be used as another tool to preserve the status quo


Every season, we see injustices on smaller teams denied clear penalties at the big team's grounds by referees influenced by the home crowd. Similarly, they themselves, are subjected to referee bias towards the big clubs. VAR will go some way to correcting this, so I think the reverse of your comment is closer to the truth

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by fjthegrey » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:04 pm

I personally think the idea of the atmosphere in stadiums being as subdued as possible is appealing to the governing bods.

Far less chance of any trouble occurring if everyone is just quietly watching the game and the emotion of the event is less charged.

They can still create their TV hype with fancy graphics, commentators shouting about how 'WE'LL NEVER SEE ANYTHING LIKE THIS EVER AGAIN' and flashy adverts with loads of quick cuts of the superstars doing 'skillz'.

It sells regardless.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Persil Tickets » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:06 pm

Aceface wrote

Anything to keep that sweet, sweet television deal money flowing.
Agree with this but not the fact that it will lead to VAR not being used. To my mind this is being introduced primarily for the armchair fan. Sky and BT will love the whole 20 different camera angles dissecting every goal and pundits arguing over whether it should stand or not. Who knows soon they may even be able to squeeze in an ad break before we bring you the decision.

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