VAR - yes or no ?

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BondsoBob
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by BondsoBob » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:33 am

westham,eggyandchips wrote:If the ref can continue to still make some absolute howlers without any intervention from VAR, then whats the point of it? :?
This is the best comment I have seen on it all. Well done sir. :thup:

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Ben
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Ben » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:34 am

could they use it like hawkeye in Tennis?
each team gets a couple of chances to ask for a review, so if VAR or the ref decided not to look at the pen yesterday we could use one of ours to have it reviewed

probably rather it not be used at all but am baffled how we don't get a pen under VAR if the replies show it was a nailed on foul

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The Gibbins
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by The Gibbins » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:34 am

I think they are trying to waste as little time as possible which is good but all in all they are getting key decisions wrong. If we have the technology and are using an assistant referee then they should be able to say the ref is clearly wrong. That Haller penalty shout was as clear a penalty as you will see, beating his man and getting tripped. Whatever process we have decided to use over here, its got major flaws and using this method, along with the time wasting it is already causing is just frustrating. It was MILES better at the World cup, even with the time taken for the referee to run to the screen, better decisions were made.

It feels like VAR doesn't want to overrule the referee over here, which makes the use of technology absolutely pointless. I dont really understand the Haller decision, or the Grealish decision for that fact yet Kane, Alli and Yarmolenko go completely unpunished for their dives. VAR also intervenes and disallows the most ridiculous goal for Man City the other week against Spurs. i think it is completely inconsistent and a shambles the way its been rolled out here, i hope they change it.

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Mega Ron
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Mega Ron » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:40 am

I think the refs are trying to make VAR look worse.

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mightyhammer
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by mightyhammer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:53 am

The whole point of VAR is to remove controversy, yet it's the most controversial aspect of the season so far. Ridiculous....and it will continue to be so whilst refs are looking after each other the way they are doing.

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Albie Beck
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Albie Beck » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:23 pm

The Gibbins wrote:It was MILES better at the World cup, even with the time taken for the referee to run to the screen, better decisions were made.
Apparently with our system there is also a screen available to the ref should he wish to take another look.

I haven't seen a single ref go over to the screen - has anyone yet?

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chigwells finest
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by chigwells finest » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:26 pm

Mega Ron wrote:I think the refs are trying to make VAR look worse.
they are doing a fine job then

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by ageing hammer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:46 pm

The Gibbins wrote:It was MILES better at the World cup, even with the time taken for the referee to run to the screen, better decisions were made.
Albie Beck wrote:
Apparently with our system there is also a screen available to the ref should he wish to take another look.

I haven't seen a single ref go over to the screen - has anyone yet?

They should just rig ( pun ) up a screen so the ref can make sure the wages has gone through.

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Colours never run
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Colours never run » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:56 pm

I would be interested at some point in seeing a poll on VAR and I don't mean just on a West ham forum, but by all Clubs to see how fans in general view it's validity. Maybe a lot more fans actually do value it's introduction that I'm not aware of, or that fans clearly are against it that the authorities have railroaded through with regardless.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Whufc06 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:40 pm

Ben wrote:could they use it like hawkeye in Tennis?
each team gets a couple of chances to ask for a review, so if VAR or the ref decided not to look at the pen yesterday we could use one of ours to have it reviewed

probably rather it not be used at all but am baffled how we don't get a pen under VAR if the replies show it was a nailed on foul
The thing with this is that whilst the VAR is not over ruling obvious errors then it will still have achieved nothing. I think they will have looked at the foul and just decided the ref didn't get it obviously wrong.

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jastons
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by jastons » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:54 pm

Immediately after the Haller 'penalty' incident, the ref waves his arms in the most obvious way to say 'no foul' or whatever. I wonder, if he didn't do that (as in if he didn't indicate that he had made a decision) would VAR have awarded a penalty?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by JustJoe85 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:40 pm

Interesting that Dermot Gallagher said the Haller one will probably be used as an example of getting it wrong at this weeks ref's meeting. Doesn't do us much good now though.

At least it didn't cost us at the weekend

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:40 pm

A reason I can think of, not that I agree with it but just thinking out loud, that the ref didn't give a penalty is from his position, directly behind Haller, he sees him run into the small gap between two defenders, in his opinion collides with one of them and falls over. The ref sees this as a fact of life, not a foul and not a dive, just a collision and part of the game.

Again, I don't necessarily agree this is what happened but it could explain no foul or dive being given.

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warp
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by warp » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:49 pm

jastons wrote:Immediately after the Haller 'penalty' incident, the ref waves his arms in the most obvious way to say 'no foul' or whatever. I wonder, if he didn't do that (as in if he didn't indicate that he had made a decision) would VAR have awarded a penalty?
that should make no difference: whether the ref didn't see or made a **** call, VAR should come in on such cases.
Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Again, I don't necessarily agree this is what happened but it could explain no foul or dive being given.
possible.
but why the people in the VAR room were watching at their bumholes?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Samba » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:11 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:A reason I can think of, not that I agree with it but just thinking out loud, that the ref didn't give a penalty is from his position, directly behind Haller, he sees him run into the small gap between two defenders, in his opinion collides with one of them and falls over. The ref sees this as a fact of life, not a foul and not a dive, just a collision and part of the game.
Again, I don't necessarily agree this is what happened but it could explain no foul or dive being given.
That is quite possible, JBB. The trouble is, we are all left hoping that VAR reviewed it & saw that is what really happened. I know we're biased in wanting a penalty but it still very much looked like a Norwich leg, deliberately took him out.
They might seem like petty incidents & it didn't make a difference to us winning but (unlikely I know) what if that one 'penalty scored goal' made the difference between us qualifying for Europe or not, or the Grealish incident resulting in Villa getting relegated at the end of the season? They say that 'things even up over the season' but no one can or should be expected to rely on b*llox like that.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:37 pm

It'll take something far more clear and obvious, like a defender catching the ball on the goal line then bouncing it basketball style around the penalty area, for a referee to overturn the decision of a brother referee. After all, the positions could be reversed next week.

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ChzMff
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by ChzMff » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:42 pm

I was against VAR from the off anyway but the biggest issue for me is it’s going after completely the wrong things. Nobody was overly bothered about decisions like the Man City handball or an encroachment during a penalty. People were in favour however of blatant penalty decisions being missed or diving being punished. We’re in a situation so far though where the former is strangely being picked up and the latter, quite blatant decisions, are being ignored. It’s not the technology, it’s the implementation.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by GPW » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:00 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:It'll take something far more clear and obvious, like a defender catching the ball on the goal line then bouncing it basketball style around the penalty area, for a referee to overturn the decision of a brother referee. After all, the positions could be reversed next week.
The ref should use a replay screen to review his own decision - he knows what he thought he saw and why he concluded what he did so he is best placed to assess if that was an error. Another ref reviewing it remotely doesn’t know that so not wanting to break the collective spirit of the referees doesn’t do that.

The current Prem Lge way of using VAR is set up to fail because a second referee is reviewing objective decisions (was a ball out of play, is someone offside) and subjective ones (was it a foul, was it enough to go down, yellow or red etc). For the objective ones that can work but for the subjective ones it needs to be the original ref using technology to verify his own decision.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by WCpete » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:28 pm

All VAR has done so far is highlight how poor the refs are. So, it's just more of the same but more so.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by LeonRivers » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:53 am

Ben wrote:could they use it like hawkeye in Tennis?
each team gets a couple of chances to ask for a review, so if VAR or the ref decided not to look at the pen yesterday we could use one of ours to have it reviewed

probably rather it not be used at all but am baffled how we don't get a pen under VAR if the replies show it was a nailed on foul
VAR can only overrule a referee’s decision on black/white calls like offside. “Interpretation” like ‘was that player fouled’ is still left to the ref - unless it happens in the build up to a goal.

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