VAR - yes or no ?

Does exactly what it says on the tin - the forum for football-related discussion.

Moderators: chalks, the pink palermo, -DL-, Gnome, Rio, bristolhammerfc

Post Reply
User avatar
bristolhammerfc
Posts: 8938
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: In the city of Brunel, balloons and banksy

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by bristolhammerfc » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:22 pm

https://talksport.com/football/595503/v ... -handball/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/footba ... 26596.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
devonshire flu
Posts: 1478
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:06 am
Location: Kirkcaldy

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by devonshire flu » Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:38 pm

I'm happier now. They have pretty much stopped using it, which is great.

They seem to have cottoned on that (a) getting every decision right doesn't happen even with VAR, and (b) if there is yawn fest after every goal there is no point in watching games.

So they are now backing the ref's original decision, even if it is a clear error. Just like, er, let me see now, er, that's it! Football.

The only time I saw it at the weekend was to confirm that Arsenal's goal was correctly flagged off for offside. This is great, but on TV you see the VAR bod working out red lines, black lines, 3D calculations, etc. All this took about 90 seconds, with everyone in the ground going nuts with worry/excitement. But it was as clear as day that an Arsenal player was offside, so why not watch the replay, bin the tech, agree with the decision, and do it quickly.

It's like the VAR staff have got a new toy, and they are going to play with it regardless of the actual match.

User avatar
Colours never run
Posts: 14888
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Colours never run » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:11 pm

devonshire flu wrote:
It's like the VAR staff have got a new toy, and they are going to play with it regardless of the actual match.

Yep, now that the department is there, they are now desperately trying to justify their role and more pertenantly their jobs. Paid to **** about with the game and be as busy as possible. And once departments become established, they grow, then there's more invested interests of employees to stay in that role. The sooner it's nipped in the bud, the easier it'll be. The longer it sticks around, it'll be difficult to remove them. That's my main concern now.

It'll be less about aiding the game which was its sole intention, to being one where valuable jobs are created because of it.

User avatar
Plashet Grove Pete
Posts: 564
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:32 pm
Location: I'm riding down Kingsley, figurin' I'll get a drink ....

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Plashet Grove Pete » Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:30 pm

Having the on field ref consult a TV monitor at pitch side is essentially no different from him consulting a lino to check there was no infringement. I'd be happy with that.It's the silence and lack of clarity about what's going on that's making it such a farce at the moment.

User avatar
Colours never run
Posts: 14888
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Colours never run » Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:17 pm

I wouldn't even like to see them announce to all the crowd what happened, like they do in say NFL, Rugby. Just the typical gestures by the ref would do, kinda how it's always been. I don't need to hear everything they deliberate.

User avatar
warp
Posts: 13904
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:13 am
Location: I am everything about this site which is wrong... i don't give a toss about WHUFC.

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by warp » Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:38 pm

devonshire flu wrote:They seem to have cottoned on that (a) getting every decision right doesn't happen even with VAR, and (b) if there is yawn fest after every goal there is no point in watching games.
Image

Chip Korea
Posts: 820
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:50 pm

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Chip Korea » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:40 pm

scatts wrote:If it can’t pick up on penalties like the one against Haller at the weekend, I really don’t see the point of it.
Hard to argue with that. Not sure I agree, but I wouldn't wanna try to prove you wrong.

Deepster
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:08 pm

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Deepster » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:09 pm

In the Times today:
The Premier League will maintain its “minimum interference” approach for VARs to only intervene on blatant errors despite referees’ chiefs admitting to four clear mistakes in the 40 matches so far this season.

Mike Riley, the managing director of the elite referees body PGMOL Ltd, told club chairmen today [thur] that it was accepted two penalties should have been awarded, for Manchester City and West Ham United, while a Newcastle United goal should have been ruled out for handball.

August 31, West Ham United v Norwich City
In perhaps the most obvious VAR mistake this season, West Ham’s striker Sebastien Haller was clearly clipped by Norwich’s Tom Trybull as the Frenchman cut inside in the area. The referee Paul Tierney took no action but the incident was checked by the VAR, Andre Marriner. However he decided not to overrule the referee. The decision did not affect the outcome of the match as West Ham won 2-0.

User avatar
e17
Posts: 11872
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Deep deep down

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by e17 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:10 pm

I’d settle for not winning pens in exchange for more games with less interference. The Citeh & Watford games were farcical to attend

User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 33450
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:18 pm

so in effect then, the referee was wrong and then the VAR official was wrong.

what's the point ?

:asleep:

Crouchend_Hammer
Posts: 12343
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Forest Gate

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:53 pm


User avatar
Watford Hammer
Posts: 221
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:58 pm
Location: What it says on the tin

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Watford Hammer » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:45 pm

e17 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:10 pm
The Citeh & Watford games were farcical to attend
I agree re the Citeh game but also went to Watford away. I can't recall any issues with VAR that game, can you remind me - genuine question.

Deepster
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:08 pm

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Deepster » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:37 pm

This bit is from the times article as well.

I said on the day, there was no VAR on the screen and no delays whilst the ref wait to hear from the VAR.
Me thinks it wasn’t working.

Three of the four missed incidents took place on one day, Saturday, August 31, and PGMOL has admitted to clubs that the use of VARs was “behind the curve” on that weekend. The use of big screens in stadiums to explain overturned decisions has been judged a success, but referees were told that there is still room for improvement in communicating reviews to fans.

User avatar
e17
Posts: 11872
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Deep deep down

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by e17 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:58 pm

Watford Hammer wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:45 pm
I agree re the Citeh game but also went to Watford away. I can't recall any issues with VAR that game, can you remind me - genuine question.
Apologies meant the Brighton away day, not Watford. Watford was the first this season that wasn't VAR VAR VAR.

User avatar
Samba
Posts: 8310
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:36 pm
Location: We'll win the League Cup next century...

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Samba » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:40 am

Deepster wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:37 pm
Three of the four missed incidents took place on one day, Saturday, August 31, and PGMOL has admitted to clubs that the use of VARs was “behind the curve” on that weekend.
VAR: 31/8/19
Image

User avatar
Graza
Posts: 1721
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Graza » Sat Sep 14, 2019 10:55 am

So they've admitted we should've had the pen and got it wrong.

For me it's positive that they are reviewing and revising the decisions they've taken and not taken using VAR. If these kinds of mistakes are still happening on match day 38 then they should sack the whole thing off. I suspect that it will happen less by then. They swung from too much on VAR to too little, they'll get the balance at some point for the majority of matches with a few outliers.

The major positive for me is that it doesn't seem to be being used just to benefit the big boys (yet).

User avatar
Cuenca 'ammer
ex 'ouston 'ammer
Posts: 33450
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:19 pm
Location: Journey to the dead of night. High on a hill in Eldorado

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:43 pm

just saw a quick couple of highlights of the Bin Dippers/Barcodes game

definite penalty not given to the Red Half of Liverpool.

quite how the ref didn't give it in real time I have no clue, and how VAR didn't consider it a clear and obvious error, again I have no clue.

why do we have VAR - or have they binned it and not told anyone ?

User avatar
LeonRivers
Posts: 7717
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Way out of your league

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by LeonRivers » Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:47 am

They were discussing it on TalkSport this week (Friday, I think) and mentioned the four mistakes that were not corrected by VAR. Apparently there were a total of six goal decisions given by VAR that wouldn’t have been made correctly without it. That’s 60% Of match day mistakes eradicated. One of the summarisers said “If it can’t get them all right, we might as well not have it.”! That’s a 60% success rate. A 60% improvement rate! 0% is apparently better than 60%. That person is an idiot.

User avatar
warp
Posts: 13904
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:13 am
Location: I am everything about this site which is wrong... i don't give a toss about WHUFC.

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by warp » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:02 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:47 am
They were discussing it on TalkSport this week (Friday, I think) and mentioned the four mistakes that were not corrected by VAR. Apparently there were a total of six goal decisions given by VAR that wouldn’t have been made correctly without it.
so there have only been 10 referees mistakes in 40 football games?
whoever buys that is an idiot...

oh wait! GOAL decisions. then this:
LeonRivers wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:47 am
That’s 60% Of match day mistakes eradicated.
is an ever so slight overstatement.

User avatar
Johnny Byrne's Boots
Posts: 20387
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: the red house over yonder

Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:52 pm

Perhaps we need VARAR or even VARARAR, or we could accept that just as strikers miss from two yards and goalkeepers let the ball trickle through their hands, occasionally referees will make a mistake. Just live with it.

Post Reply