VAR - yes or no ?

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Cuenca 'ammer
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:10 pm

agreed, BUT....flag goes up...

with the "new" set of instructions it is very confusing. the flag (as I understand it) doesn't go up so that the goal can be reviewed.

why put up the flag ?

you see it so many times now, the flag goes up. ref gives offside.

there must be some kind of different instruction that we all don't know about. I know VAR wasn't in force last season, but you remember Perez (Leicester was it ?) last season - player is a long way from goal flag tends to go up.

ball inside the box flag seems to stay down.

in this instance Costa was about 20-25 yards away from goal, flag goes up.

later in the game Benzema scores from about 6 yards out, didn't see the flag - offside from VAR by a shoe lace.

as a player it certainly must be frustrating. you score and no flag, VAR overrules the goal. you score flag goes up, VAR overrules the call goal stands. you get the ball 20 yards out sometimes the flag goes up sometimes it doesn't. if it goes up and you're that far from goal, usually everything comes to a standstill and play restarts with a free-kick for offside.

if it is this confusing from the fan's perspective, then imagine how difficult it must be to be a player.

exactly when IS the flag supposed to go up or stay down ? (rhetorical I know)

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by LeonRivers » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:36 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:
there must be some kind of different instruction that we all don't know about.
The official instruction is to play to the whistle. It genuinely is as simple as that.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:12 am

no I mean is there some kind of official instruction whereby the a/r raises his flag or he doesn't ?

I "thought" that the instructions are not if it's close wait until a goal is scored.

admittedly Costa was a little more offside than some we have seen lately - with our games against Brighton and Citeh - but it was a bang! bang! play with the VAR camera yes he was marginally. but they never played it out.

then Benzema scored I think the flag went up but he was a shoe lace offside.

so I am wondering especially with the play the other week against us - a) blatantly offside raise the flag (but even that lately has only come into play when the ball is touched) b) if you're not sure c) don't raise the flag at all.

because lately we have seen all the above - which leaves me a bit confused (easily done I know) so when from game to game, from week to week with the same officials, we don't see the same rules applied.

Yarmo dived - no yellow
Ali dived - no yellow
Kane dived - no yellow
Grealish didn't dive - yellow

no wonder fans and players alike are left scratching their collective heads.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Samba » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:28 am

jastons wrote:Another infuriating thing about the haller 'penalty'... the ref is right there, if its not a foul on Haller then he must've dived? The ref gives nothing!
The ref clearly believed that Haller fell over sideways, for no apparent reason. The Norwich leg that tripped him up was just a figment of our collective imaginations...

All refs should start being held accountable. As well as all var staff.
The Haller incident was either incompetence or cheating, by the ref. If it was neither & a mistake then var should have stepped in. Perhaps they'd all popped out for a piss, at that moment.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:30 am

Andre Mariner was the VAR official.

:hush:

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Albie Beck
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Albie Beck » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:32 am

Cuenca 'ammer wrote: Yarmo dived - no yellow
Ali dived - no yellow
Kane dived - no yellow
Grealish didn't dive - yellow
Haller fouled - f*** all...
Samba wrote:The Haller incident was either incompetence or cheating, by the ref. If it was neither & a mistake then var should have stepped in. Perhaps they'd all popped out for a piss, at that moment.
I still reckon they have changed the instructions for this weekend following all the controversy the previous weeks. Non-intervention was the word... :thdn:

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:46 am

I was just trying to show the inconsistency on same call incidents mate.

at the time, (as I am sure many others did) I said to myself "Penalty !!!" ..."what ? that was a stone wall penalty wasn't it ?"

if not then it was a dive. there's no way Haller goes down after cutting inside his player (actually between the two of them) bearing down on goal, he's going toward the middle of the goal not away, without some contact. if then, the ref deems no contact at all, then without doubt, he is taking a dive.

there's no other conclusion to be drawn at all. and the official is right there with a great view.

the other incidents I mention are all flat out dives except Grealish. but he's the one punished.

it's bonkers

as for your other comment, you may well be right. I don't recollect any other thing during the games I watched in England that involved VAR.

in Spain however, a completely different kettle of fish.

I wonder if the powers that be want some huge controversy that they can say "see, that's why we need VAR, for some reason it was unavailable at that precise moment." or as mentioned above, they popped out for a piss.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by pezza20 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:11 am

They are clearly honing the technology to suit the British game.

If they had carried on like the first 2 rounds of games nobody would be going to football by the end of the season, was destroying the whole ethos of celebrating a goal.

Linesman are told if in doubt don't flag - clearly there were occasions where the player was miles off but until he attempts to affect play the flag stays down.

For VAR to be used effectively it should be used for any penalty decisions the ref clearly has got wrong, and decisions like Grealish where it was a clear cock up. Don't use it for infringement of the penalty area and change the ridiculous hand ball law as it stands it is stupid.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Colours never run » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:41 am

Pop Robson wrote:
While Grealish gets booked for what looked like trying to stay up until he passes the ball

Whislt Yarmolenko does the worse dive ever and gets away with it

Funny Old Game

VAR :thdn:
Definitely this, on both incidences. *Gives daggers at Yarmolenko for being a but of a diving knob*

That Villa incident though, took the ****ing biscuit! Actually made me angry on Villas behalf, because not only did the Ref clearly f*** it up in real time somehow, the VAR had no excuse whatsoever. It was a "clear and obvious error" and it had to be overturned, if it's to work properly. It was a total joke to watch that unfold the way it did. Hate it even more than I ever did and that's saying something. Imagine if Villa went back down by 1 point.... :o

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Wilko1304 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:07 am

Cuenca 'ammer wrote: Yarmo dived - no yellow
Ali dived - no yellow
Kane dived - no yellow
Grealish didn't dive - yellow

no wonder fans and players alike are left scratching their collective heads.
If they knew that VAR isn't for yellows or fouls that don't affect goals, would not book anyone, then they'd be no more confused than usual. In fact, all VAR could do on the first three would be give a penalty, and VAR could not help the Villa "goal" because the whistle went.

The Haller one baffled me, but the poor refereeing in the first instance was the worst part. However, calls from people for us to ask the ref to get VAR to check it are nonsense: VAR never needs the referee to check anything, they are always checking every incident.

All I can think is that they asked the ref if he had seen contact and that the ref said he felt it was not enough to bring him down or he went down after losing control of the ball. At that point they may have felt it wasn't a clear and obvious error.

So far, I think we should have had a pen against Norwich and I think City should have had a goal chalked off, both for fouls on Haller.

VAR is taking the attention away from refereeing decisions. You can argue that there's good and bad things to that.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by westham,eggyandchips » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:52 am

If the ref can continue to still make some absolute howlers without any intervention from VAR, then whats the point of it? :?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by sendô » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:37 am

I honestly don't understand what's going on.

The other week it was non stop VAR intervention, players shoulders half an inch offside etc.

Haller gets fouled for what much be one of the most obvious pens I've ever seen - nothing.
Even worse, Jack Grealish gets fouled twice, manages to stay on his feet long enough to slide in Lansbury to score - ref blows for a dive.

What is the point in VAR if it isn't going to overturn these sorts of howlers?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:50 am

Given the varying levels of intervention deemed acceptable in different competitions (or different weeks of the same competition if you're the Premier League), I wonder how long till we end up with a trial of a team-led review system as per cricket, etc. Two reviews per 90 mins perhaps.

Would take some of the pressure off the officials and where they draw the line on reviewing stuff while, theoretically, still eliminating (some of) the howlers, which has to be the main priority.

If it did come in, I guess you'd also probably see NFL-style screen watchers up in the stands trying to inform a manager ASAP whether or not to review. Not ideal at all, but could be an improvement on the current shambles.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Albie Beck » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:53 am

But then you'd get the "tactical review" where one was used up in the added time to waste time, as with subs now.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by JustJoe85 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:14 am

The Grealish one couldn't be a goal with VAR because the ref blew for the dive before the goal was scored.

In that case it is just an example of the worst refereeing you will likely see.

I've been a supporter of VAR so far even with all of it's issues but the unwillingness to overturn a mate's decision on some of these penalties is starting to wear really thin. The Silva one at Bournemouth last week and Haller this week are the best examples. Both of these were absolutely blatant penalties not given. My concern is that none of these will be overturned, right or wrong because they aren't clear and obvious enough so the Premier League can turn round and give some crap stat that they get 99.9% of decisions right.

The other concern is that it will still be used to favour big teams but so far so good on that front and it does seem a level playing field (Silva, Kane and Martial all not getting decisions go their way).

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by sendô » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:38 am

JustJoe85 wrote:The Grealish one couldn't be a goal with VAR because the ref blew for the dive before the goal was scored.

In that case it is just an example of the worst refereeing you will likely see.
It's also an example of how VAR is not fit for purpose as it is.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Denbighammer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:49 am

"VAR in not a silver bullet shocker"

All your doing is moving the decision from the numpty on the pitch to a numpty in the stands somewhere.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by jastons » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:15 am

pezza20 wrote:They are clearly honing the technology to suit the British game.
That in itself could cause its own problems. English clubs playing in Europe will naturally expect the same level of VAR 'involvement' in all competitions. The same goes for international games.

If the idea behind VAR is to get the correct decision then it needs to be consistent across all competitions.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Estuary » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:18 am

westham,eggyandchips wrote:If the ref can continue to still make some absolute howlers without any intervention from VAR, then whats the point of it? :?
Exactly my thoughts.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by ageing hammer » Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:08 am

I am confused, anyone know if Var makes the calls or does the ref overule it if he feels like it?

I though Var was introduced to stop the refs making howlers, how does it work, does Var tell the ref a decision or does the ref tell Var no I am making the call.

If the ref can tell Var he is not taking their advice then he can still rob us as normal and help the big boys when we play them again.

I remember anytime we played one of the so called top teams if we started getting anywhere near them in a game a goal would be disallowed for us or a penalty given to them blatant wrong decisions that would keep us from beating them. I thought Var was going to stop all that but judging by what is happening the ref can ignore Var if he likes so it's a foregone conclusion he will do that when we are trying to compete against the usual top teams.

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