Northbank Bar wrote:What we want to achieve is transparency and fairness.A supporter on the list should know where he or she is on that list and therefore have some idea of how long they will have to wait
Supporters are also surely entitled to expect fair treatment.The current system is not fair and there are so many well documented anomalies.
West Ham United have considerable resources at their disposal and should be able to create a better system.It is not a issue of what their legal obligations are, but more what their moral obligations are to the supporters.
The issue is that what tickets are available should be issued fairly .
Northbank Bar - to be clear I wouldn't disagree with any of that, save for one key point which I'll come on to below the section of Tross's post I'll cut and paste.
In the first instance, we are (quite rightly I believe) giving the club the opportunity to engage with a number of its disgruntled supporters who have chosen Hammers United as their elected medium through which they wish to engage and restore the damaged credibility that the current "system" has caused.
One would of course hope the club cares enough about their supporters concerns to engage, ...... we would most certainly rather engage with them to address and resolve the situation collaboratively, with a focus on their moral obligations at this stage (as mentioned by Northbank Bar), than further explore their legal obligations, where they could well find themselves in breach of such.
We also believe that West Ham, with its huge marketing budget, numerous heavily titled executives, and sponsorship partners, has invested a considerable amount building out the "West Ham United FC Brand" if you will. Nobody, least of all Hammers United, would want to see any of that damaged with the bad press that would potentially follow any introspection for example by the ASA!
Ultimately, an improved system, that provides the required levels of clarity (legally and morally) and stands up to the scrutiny of the West Ham fans it's actually there to serve, as well as serving the commercial function required by the club as a key part of its operational infrastructure I believe would be seen as a positive outcome for both parties, and deliver against the expectations of our members.
Tross, again, I wouldn't disagree with much of that save for one or two key points.
Both your post and Northbank Bars post are asking for reasonable treatment for supporters, and you're asking in a reasonable way.
You're both being polite, you're both asking for what really ought to be, for any fair observer, an easily deliverable outcome for both the club and supporters.
Or put another way, how hard can it be for a business with nearly £200m of turnover to keep a list of people who wish to buy their product, with those who have been on the list the longest nearest the top of it : a kind of "who is No.1 on the list for a ST", thing.
It beggars belief that a supporters group should have to bring this sort of thing to the clubs attention , but here we are, and well done for doing so - as I said in my first post on this thread, it's a sensible campaign.
Now, as for my two key points of difference they are:
1. I don't believe there is a waiting list at all.
2. I don't believe the club really cares about it's relationship with our supporters.
Now, I don't doubt there is a list of names, random e-mail addresses, out of date mobile numbers and so on. but nothing as sophisticated as having all of that information in a correct, organised and structured way, and crucially nothing that says £10 deposit / registration fee paid.
Despite all the resources you believe the club to have ( I disagree on this point by the way, I believe the club to be laughably under resourced, and said so prior to the relocation), I don't blieve they have any such proper list or register.
As for them caring about relationships with supporters, the club do, we know as fact, employ people to read social media content, specifically this site for certain along with others.Given that is the case they have been reading about this issue with the possibly non existent list for a couple of years now, yet nothing has changed.
Furthermore, this websites readers called these owners out over the 5 year discount scheme they tried to renege on, and forced the club to back peddle. Yet, here we are half a decade later and there's another ticketing scam being pursued.
That moves the issue from one of poor competence to possibly one of a lack of integrity on the part of the club.
It would appear to me their only interest in the supporters is how to monetise their loyalty to the maximum, specifically to minimise any money that needs to be put in by the owners.
The cost of handling ticket sales will be self financing, with the booking fees etc covering the cost of all the wages of the staff and mailing costs etc - it's all part of the Brady "no operating costs" mantra.
In short their attitude towards the ST waiting list is systemic, deliberate and borne from a culture that treats supporters with utter contempt rather than mutual respect.
As evidence to back that up I cite the fact you are writing to Jake Heath, post boy, rather than the one single person who we all know could resolve this within30 seconds of being "engaged".
Hats off to you for trying, I hope you succeed but I fear it's the culture that needs addressing as well as the policies and general incompetence, and that means regime change.
The clubs relationship with supporters is dreadful, they continue to fight battles over the silliest things, issues that can be easily fixed, in the bizarre belief there is a point in the future they can declare a victory.