Burnley 3-0 West Ham Utd (09/11/19)

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Finishing Hammer
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by Finishing Hammer »

Crossd_Hammrs wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:01 am I haven't noticed any comments on the cynical tackle in the 90th min that led to Lanzini's injury. At 3-0 up and in his own half it was really very unnecessary, even from a cheat's perspective.
Now why didn't VAR upgrade that to a red card for the panel to (for consistency) later overturn? Putting the issue of deliberate fouling back in the limelight for a second week running and with a player injury as the result might have led to a rethink by the rule makers if not by the players themselves.
I raised it in the "Andres Gomez" thread. :thup:
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by johnnyb »

Get the ball high into the box and you'll score against West Ham. The defenders can't jump and the goalie can't jump or catch. Rice was also outjumped for the first goal. It's quite ridiculous that a Premier League team has so many defenders who simply can't defend properly. Ogbonna perhaps can jump a bit but for some reason only known to this stubborn manager, he is sitting on the bench.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by hammer1975 »

Declan has been our best player this season and is being asked to do too much. He reads the game well and is a really good tackler. He’s frequently beaten in the air though. Even more so when he’s in his own area against big lumps. Personally think that’s one of the reasons why his move to defensive mid has helped him so much.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by BethnalGreenHammer74 »

We struggle to do the basics of football. We have no clue, we can’t even play simple football anymore. It must be the training, awful football. We have defenders who can’t defend, win headers, win many 50/50 tackles, don’t speak to each other. A goalkeeper who brings no confidence to his outfield players because he is so poor. Midfielders who are all lightweight, slow and struggle to run the length of the pitch, and a striker who is so isolated, he drops back to midfield to get involved. Watching Pellegrini and his staff sitting on the bench is winding me up, no emotion or getting enthusiastic on the touchline. I wish we had someone like Rio Ferdinand on our coaching staff to help with organising, giving our team proper shape and some fitness.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by Puff Daddy »

pezza20 wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:04 am Funny how rumour becomes fact

That is b*llocks - Wilshere wanted a 3 year deal and Sullivan agreed - Pelle can not force contract terms on Sullivan, he doesn't negotiate the deal, Sullivan does.

Sometimes people need to wake up to the idea that the cancer at our club is Sullivan and it is rotting our club year by year by the move, chronic underinvestment in the squad, a VC who spends more time in the Sun columns than doing her well paid job with our club, and an owner who just can't help himself selling out his employees.

Nothing will change until these cowboys **** off
I am no defender of the faith, but as a matter of interest, just how much better were things before the cowboys arrived ? What we need is the cavalry
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by hammerman11 »

for once we were all right and we got stuffed. should have been 5-0 like last week it should have been 5-0 at half time.

we have all supported Pellegrini but it is clear he has been sussed by the opposition every week, cant motivate the team , has no tactics and wont change the system.

we are in a really bad place as we wont sack him because it will cost us too much. I think it will get a lot worse in the next few weeks.
spurs next up and they will stuff us because although they are having a poor season by their standards they are still miles better than us in every position.

yesterday as the goals went in I found myself wanting us ti be stuffed badly so they would sack him.

we have nothing left for our great support. no home, no team no tactics nothing.

what idiot leaves the best header on the bench and plays balbuena and diop who were awful last week ? ogbonna should have started.
the GK situation is down to pelle as he describes roberto as a really good keeper and he knows that ! FFS we must have the wrong roberto. martin must start next game but he is rubbish as well.so we are doomed there.

what idiot starts a lightweight spaniard who is struggling to come to terms with the PL ? fornals should not have started and it is almost neglect and abuse by pelle to subject fornals to that.

I could go on but I am numb with west ham . what can we do as fans. nothing the shysters have our money. maybe dont attend show the bowl in all its emptyness against spurs asthey hit 5 against us. who knows .

we will be bottom long before xmas as the next few matches see us "take on"
spurs h lose
chelsea a lose heavily
wolves a lose
arsenal h lose
southampton a lose as they will want it more !
palace a lose
leicester h lose

next 7 games and I cant see us getting anything apart from some thumpings. we are going down unless sully changes it.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by S-H »

Hammerman11 gets a lot of stick on here, but he called this result a week ago.

What is it they say about a broken clock?
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by hammerman11 »

I hope I am wrong for the next 7 games !

trouble is pelle is stubborn and wont change the formation . we need to go 352 to have a chance of stopping the goals going in. martin in goal. can he be any worse \? If he is then play the u23 keeper anang ?

new manager required I think as pelle cant motivate or get the best from this bunch of players. he will be expensive to pay off so we will need cheap. chris hughton would be my choice now until next summer.

martin
diop ogbonna Balbuena
fredericks rice sanchez Anderson masuaka
haller yarmolenko

subs anang cresswell Snodgrass ajeti Holland scully Antonio
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by smuts »

BethnalGreenHammer74 wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:19 am We struggle to do the basics of football. We have no clue, we can’t even play simple football anymore. It must be the training, awful football. We have defenders who can’t defend, win headers, win many 50/50 tackles, don’t speak to each other. A goalkeeper who brings no confidence to his outfield players because he is so poor. Midfielders who are all lightweight, slow and struggle to run the length of the pitch, and a striker who is so isolated, he drops back to midfield to get involved. Watching Pellegrini and his staff sitting on the bench is winding me up, no emotion or getting enthusiastic on the touchline. I wish we had someone like Rio Ferdinand on our coaching staff to help with organising, giving our team proper shape and some fitness.
Rio? No thanks. Our fitness does seem to have gone off a cliff though and we play the game at walking pace.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by DannyboyDJL »

I've just watched this again on MOTD again and there were 5 or 6 examples, just on the highlights, of everyone of their midfielders running beyond ours.

We aren't reacting to situations or working hard enough. Burnley sprint at the first sign of an error or a potential attack whereas we stroll and watch and then break into a jog when it looks like we are in trouble. It's too late then as they had 2/3 players ahead of ours. Snodgrass and Fornals were letting people go all day long.

Couple that with individual errors and lack of basic defending by the defence and we are going to concede a lot of goals.

I highlighted the same thing at Brighton and we got away with it, but the same things were happening then as now. We are constantly overloaded because too many people are up the pitch and jogging about.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by Turns to Stone »

The problem is, that it is about knowing your job. We can give Rice stick, but he’s 19 years old with less than 50 Premier league games under his belt, many of which were at centre-back. Snodgrass has spent all his career as a winger and is being asked to play as a holding midfielder.

We only have Noble. Sanchez and Wilshere with any experience of the position and they can’t be trusted for one reason or another. You could track this nonsense as far back as William Carvalho if you wanted to. Massive underinvestment in one of the most important positions on the pitch and it’s coming home to roost.

I love Mark Noble, and he is a West Ham legend, but the fact that at no stage in his entire career at West Ham, has he ever really been in danger of being dropped, suggests that he is a far better player than he actually is. The reason that every manager reverts to Noble is as much about lack of options as it as as anything else. How many times has Nobles had a few poor performances on the bounce but been back in the team every week....I can think of dozens off the top of my head. the issue is far bigger than Pellegrini.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by Patito »

S-H wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:40 am Hammerman11 gets a lot of stick on here, but he called this result a week ago.

What is it they say about a broken clock?
Then changed his mind to 4-0 on Friday :lol:
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Turns to Stone wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:34 am The problem is, that it is about knowing your job. We can give Rice stick, but he’s 19 years old with less than 50 Premier league games under his belt, many of which were at centre-back. Snodgrass has spent all his career as a winger and is being asked to play as a holding midfielder.

We only have Noble. Sanchez and Wilshere with any experience of the position and they can’t be trusted for one reason or another. You could track this nonsense as far back as William Carvalho if you wanted to. Massive underinvestment in one of the most important positions on the pitch and it’s coming home to roost.

I love Mark Noble, and he is a West Ham legend, but the fact that at no stage in his entire career at West Ham, has he ever really been in danger of being dropped, suggests that he is a far better player than he actually is. The reason that every manager reverts to Noble is as much about lack of options as it as as anything else. How many times has Nobles had a few poor performances on the bounce but been back in the team every week....I can think of dozens off the top of my head. the issue is far bigger than Pellegrini.
I can't recall Rice and Sanchez playing much, if at all, together except at the end of games

Seems the next logical step to me
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by irving boleyn »

Was Noble playing in the Pelle advanced position before his injury, or did he start deeper ?

Wasn't able to see any of the game at all.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by DannyboyDJL »

irving boleyn wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:14 am Was Noble playing in the Pelle advanced position before his injury, or did he start deeper ?

Wasn't able to see any of the game at all.
He seemed to be playing alongside Rice from what I saw. A bit deeper.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by irving boleyn »

T.Y.
About time.or I guess... too late !
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by WorcesterWHU »

Pellers' stubbornness is polarising; when it works, he can take credit for sticking to whatever mantra he has. But on the flip side the complete reluctance to try anything resembling different is a massive concern.

It could be getting someone like Sanchez to sit beside Rice. It could be going three at the back - my own preference - and move Rice to the centre of the three, allowing him to bring it out from the back and allow Fredericks and Masuaku to bomb up the wings, it could be deciding to go two up top, it could be giving Holland a try, just do something. The rigidity in whatever "system" this is remains baffling when it's clear that it's not even close to working.

Injuries are unfortunate. We have one wildcard in the pack in Antonio and I'm surprised at just how important he seems to be. Fabianski is clearly a massive miss but we shouldn't be so reliant on a goalkeeper bailing us out - he did it last season when we conceded way too many chances and it's coming home to roost; we're easy to create clear goalscoring opportunities against (I'm sure someone into their xG will be able to back this up). And this is all well and good if we're able to create our own at the other end - but to touch the ball once in the opposition penalty area in a half of football - and the opponents aren't Liverpool or Man City - is absolutely shocking.

Plenty of people had misgivings about our business in the summer and who knows what hands were tied behind Husillos' and Pellers' backs by Sullivan given the budgetary constraints (that exist for some reason). We drained the swamp of a lot of players but that's only a positive if you effectively replace them. We didn't do that, for whatever reason.

But these are clearly competent footballers. I look at them as they cross the white line and I see a collective that looks beaten before they've even started; their confidence is at rock bottom and most of them look entirely disinterested. I don't typically advocate a change of manager but, at this stage, it's all you can actually change. And whilst we might be sitting outside the relegation zone at the moment we've got the look of a team that is sinking like a stone - it's got a touch of the Avrams about it.

So, payoff withstanding, I fully expect us to flip back to a pragmatic manager sooner rather than later. And then we'll be back to square one, fighting fire, and continuing ad inifinitum with no visible strategy. When Pellers and Husillos turned up I thought there was a strategy forming but it's clear that our problems are systemic and a continuing reminder of who is at the helm of our football club.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by e17 »

If Carlos Sanchez is the answer, we’re really ****ed
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by wildkard »

I think we will fine. We just need three things:

1. New owners
2. New manager
3. Half a new first team.

Easy.
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Re: ⚽ Burnley FC v West Ham United: Match thread (09/11)

Post by antonyirons »

wildkard wrote: Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:32 am I think we will fine. We just need three things:

1. New owners
2. New manager
3. Half a new first team.

Easy.
I've said it so many times I'm getting sick of hearing it; NOTHING ever changes at this club regardless of who the owners are, who the manager is or who steps on to the field in claret and blue. We could have the most astute and enlightened ownership who splurge bazillions on getting us the best players in the world and a manager who combines Ferguson's will to win with Guardiola's tactical genius and we would still lose 5-0 to a team that hasn't won in living memory with the striker who hasn't scored since The Creation notching a hat-trick. This is The West Ham Way, people, this is what happens at this club. There is something rooted so fundamentally deep in the psyche and soul of this club the nothing, absolutely nothing (short of us going into liquidation and being reborn as a completely new entity) can or will prevent what's happening at the moment being endlessly repeated. I've live with it for 55 years now through endless changes in personnel at all levels but it goes on and on happening. I think we need an exorcism.
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