Who Next? The odds
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- WestHamIFC
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Re: Who Next? The odds
I guess I’m in a minority, I’d be happy with Moyes. I thought he deserved the job for another season at the time. Got us from a relegation spot to mid-table safety. As I recall, once we were safe got us playing more attractive, attacking football. Yes, it back-fired with heavy losses to the likes of Man City, but it also brought some decent performances in the games we won, and we surely couldn’t expect him to transform us into an expansive and successful team within a matter of weeks! Bottom line – there was significant progress.
He also recognised our squad is far better suited to playing 3 CBs and Wing-Backs. It’s so obvious our ‘Full-Backs’ are simply not defensively able enough to play as FBs in a flat back four, but are very effective as Wing-Backs, adding numbers to our midfield. Likewise, our CBs look so weak when there’s only 2 of them.
Compare: Pelle was given £100m to spend. Moyes, £8m in January? Yes, he panicked got Hugill in – but what else could he do with £8m in January?? I blame the board for not backing him.
But best of all he & Pearce got them all putting a shift in. The appalling fitness levels were addressed, have everyone was expected to run their hearts out for the team. Sadly we have regressed massively in this department – I saw a stat the other day showing how little ground our players are covering. There’s no way Moyes and Pearce would have tolerated the disgusting levels of ‘effort’ we’ve witnessed in recent weeks.
He also recognised our squad is far better suited to playing 3 CBs and Wing-Backs. It’s so obvious our ‘Full-Backs’ are simply not defensively able enough to play as FBs in a flat back four, but are very effective as Wing-Backs, adding numbers to our midfield. Likewise, our CBs look so weak when there’s only 2 of them.
Compare: Pelle was given £100m to spend. Moyes, £8m in January? Yes, he panicked got Hugill in – but what else could he do with £8m in January?? I blame the board for not backing him.
But best of all he & Pearce got them all putting a shift in. The appalling fitness levels were addressed, have everyone was expected to run their hearts out for the team. Sadly we have regressed massively in this department – I saw a stat the other day showing how little ground our players are covering. There’s no way Moyes and Pearce would have tolerated the disgusting levels of ‘effort’ we’ve witnessed in recent weeks.
- hammers92
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Re: Who Next? The odds
I remember losing to Wigan away with absolutely no care in the world from Moyes and the players. Losing 4-0 to Liverpool and starting Evra and Zabaleta as full backs. Pumping it long to Arnautovic and hoping we'd have success on the break. He was the one who kept us up, not Moyes.
I've got nothing against the guy but he's a poor manager, appointing him just says we've given up.
I've got nothing against the guy but he's a poor manager, appointing him just says we've given up.
- Coops
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Re: Who Next? The odds
I agree re Moyes, I thought he deserved to be given a contract and a budget.
I think he could turn our fortunes around, he knows the set up and would be preferable to some of the other names mentioned.
He certainly seemed to get the best out of certain players, something Pellegrini is currently failing at.
I think he could turn our fortunes around, he knows the set up and would be preferable to some of the other names mentioned.
He certainly seemed to get the best out of certain players, something Pellegrini is currently failing at.
- Beavis Danzig
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Re: Who Next? The odds
genuinely think i'd rather some random pisshead off the street as player manager than be lumped with moyes again. at least he'd let the squad play with a football in training and be a bit of fun to watch.
if we didn't have those two wins against completely apathetic midtable sides looking to sack their manager at the end of the season, no-one in their right mind would be suggesting him for one moment.
he didn't even get us running more, that was a proven myth. his whole game was to be as defensively rigid as possible (while still conceding a boatload) and praying that a long punt up to arnie would dig us out of a hole.
if we didn't have those two wins against completely apathetic midtable sides looking to sack their manager at the end of the season, no-one in their right mind would be suggesting him for one moment.
he didn't even get us running more, that was a proven myth. his whole game was to be as defensively rigid as possible (while still conceding a boatload) and praying that a long punt up to arnie would dig us out of a hole.
Last edited by Beavis Danzig on Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Who Next? The odds
WestHamIFC wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:40 am I guess I’m in a minority, I’d be happy with Moyes. I thought he deserved the job for another season at the time. Got us from a relegation spot to mid-table safety. As I recall, once we were safe got us playing more attractive, attacking football. Yes, it back-fired with heavy losses to the likes of Man City, but it also brought some decent performances in the games we won, and we surely couldn’t expect him to transform us into an expansive and successful team within a matter of weeks! Bottom line – there was significant progress.
We weren’t safe under Moyes until May 2018 and two games before the end of the season
Last edited by steps on Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who Next? The odds
Very good post Beavis
Moyes' tactics were pack the defence with three centre backs and two wing backs who hardly crossed the half way line and then hit it long down the channels in the hope that Arnoutovic could make something of it [which thankfully for Moyes, he often did]
He also played Koyoute in the number 10 role at times :lol:
As a bloke I quite liked him. Honest, modest, a bit of integrity about him and that elevated him far above Allardyce [who had none of those qualities], but what he served up on the pitch was pretty cack
Moyes' tactics were pack the defence with three centre backs and two wing backs who hardly crossed the half way line and then hit it long down the channels in the hope that Arnoutovic could make something of it [which thankfully for Moyes, he often did]
He also played Koyoute in the number 10 role at times :lol:
As a bloke I quite liked him. Honest, modest, a bit of integrity about him and that elevated him far above Allardyce [who had none of those qualities], but what he served up on the pitch was pretty cack
- Wilko1304
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Re: Who Next? The odds
God, I'd pushed the creative trequartista that was Cheik under Moyes out of my mind. That is up there with the worst managerial moves I've ever seen.
Re: Who Next? The odds
He was there to either mark the opposition DCM or win headers for Arnie. Hardly a number 10. Not saying I agree with it but let's not make it something it wasn't. Also Moyes kept us up when we were absolutely shot. Can't see him wanting the job because he'd want complete control which Sully wouldn't give him.
- WestHamIFC
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Re: Who Next? The odds
Hmmm – remind who was the one who recognised Arnie should be converted from an entire career playing as a Winger to a Central Striker and set-up the team to play to his strengths?
Pretty sure that’s what kept us up. Until then Arnie had under-performed with most saying what a waste of money he had been..
- chalks
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Re: Who Next? The odds
I’d have Moyes back in a heartbeat
People need to remember what we are. A shitty club run by crooks. We won’t ever be anything else. So get a British manager in who actually gives a **** and not just here for the dollar
People need to remember what we are. A shitty club run by crooks. We won’t ever be anything else. So get a British manager in who actually gives a **** and not just here for the dollar
- Beavis Danzig
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Re: Who Next? The odds
funnily that's another strike against moyes for me. was more than happy to do their bidding last time out, siding while digging out the support. would be the ultimate yes man having come back to a job at the first time of asking after being binned off because the owners wanted to keep us on side, and would never make any demands beyond requiring the tools to play dour unambitious football in a carvernous theatre of bad dreams.
he'd be the owners dream, if only we'd accept him. which i think 50% would until they woke up to what his stewardship would actually mean for the club that they pay to see every fortnight (let alone those who travel). at least the **** football pellegrini is serving up isn't by design.
- Burnley Hammer
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Re: Who Next? The odds
I believe that Moyes wasn't really playing how he ultimately wanted to play. He took over a team that was in freefall and a squad with no confidence and desperately lacking fitness. His only target was to avoid relegation. He did what it took regardless of how ugly it was. I do recall him saying in an interview that we were still a million miles away from playing how he wanted us to play. It's what pragmatic managers tend to do though... adjust their tactics to what's required. If Moyes was employed for the long term and was sitting in the top half of the table, I don't believe he would just crowd his team with defenders and hoof the ball long. In a higher position, I'd describe his tactics as efficient and organised rather than defensive and hoofball. It was actually the same with Allardyce... the nearer to relegation he was, the uglier the football. We actually played some good stuff at times, especially the little spell with Downing, Valencia, and Sakho as his front three. Bolton weren't an ultra defensive hoofball team either. They were efficient and organised and very difficult to play against. Utimately though, despite it's ugliness, that's what you want when you're in trouble... a manager that can adjust his tactics and win ugly to drag you out of the ****.
- Beavis Danzig
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Re: Who Next? The odds
burnley, his teams have all been awful to watch. everton at their peak were a lesson in drilled fundamentals and if you have a look at what they're saying, none of them want him back either. he's an absolute dinosaur of a game that has moved on.
whoever we get in, we need someone looking to what football will be a decade from now, not a decade in the past.
the only plus about moyes for me is that he may well hasten the demise of the dildos, because i can't see many returning for another season of his *****.
whoever we get in, we need someone looking to what football will be a decade from now, not a decade in the past.
the only plus about moyes for me is that he may well hasten the demise of the dildos, because i can't see many returning for another season of his *****.
Last edited by Beavis Danzig on Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
- Burnley Hammer
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Re: Who Next? The odds
A lesson that we need to learn. We can't expect to achieve anything when we can't even get the fundamentals right.Beavis Danzig wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:46 am ...everton at their peak were a lesson in drilled fundamentals ...
I'm not necessarily saying get Moyes back... but I do think we need someone who can actually identify the weaknesses in our team. And as boring as it may seem, fixing those weaknesses are going to involve a well drilled and organised defence, and a stronger midfield that can't be walked through.
First though... simply a team that works hard and runs more than the opposition would be a start. The problem at the moment is that we're in trouble but not playing like we actually want to get out of it.
- claretandblue82
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Re: Who Next? The odds
Arsenal, Everton and us are all in the same boat. We all want entertaining football but the teams are full of overseas players on big contracts with no heart for the team they play for. All three could do with starting again with a british manager, sort their **** out, and start playing to their full potential with more British/academy players. Its working for Chelsea and everyone thought they would struggle!
It won’t happen though as all everyone cares about is the money and want quick fixes.
It won’t happen though as all everyone cares about is the money and want quick fixes.
- Beavis Danzig
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Re: Who Next? The odds
i just want to look forward to going to the football. it's not a massive ask and the matchday used to take care of it itself. don't ask me or any other WHU supporter to turn up at the olympic stadium to see the kind of 19th century percentage football that we had enough of by halfway through fat sam's reign.
the only way i'll stop being so demanding if sullivan goes down to upton park with his hod and corrects his mistake brick by brick so we have something other than what's happening on the pitch to enjoy about the day.
the only way i'll stop being so demanding if sullivan goes down to upton park with his hod and corrects his mistake brick by brick so we have something other than what's happening on the pitch to enjoy about the day.
- Coops
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Re: Who Next? The odds
I agree with this 100%. But I also don't want to go to a game expecting to be tonked, knowing that we wont put up a fight, that we wont create enough chances and that our defence will leak goals. This is what we have at the moment.Beavis Danzig wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:15 pm i just want to look forward to going to the football. it's not a massive ask and the matchday used to take care of it itself. don't ask me or any other WHU supporter to turn up at the olympic stadium to see the kind of 19th century percentage football that we had enough of by halfway through fat sam's reign.
the only way i'll stop being so demanding if sullivan goes down to upton park with his hod and corrects his mistake brick by brick so we have something other than what's happening on the pitch to enjoy about the day.