Who Next? The odds

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Ironing Board
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Ironing Board »

hammer1975 wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:56 pm :thup:
Agree

It’s one of the reasons i’m one of the few on this forum (it seems) who would take Moyes. I get people were frustrated with his style last time around but silk purse, sow’s ear and all that. I don’t think we progress further than mid table and reserves out of the cup early whilst under these owners - so i’m willing to play the long game and look for the exciting manager etc in five years when they’ve ****ed off with their hundreds of millions of unwarranted profit.
That’s the thing. For all the joking about, Moyes can build a really good side on a decent budget. He is the opposite of flavour of the month, he seems to be loathed by footy fans everywhere after Man Utd, but I think he has fire in his belly. I also liked his coaching team.

I would like us to be more like dirty old Leeds than the soft-belied side we are now.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

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Ironing Board wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:38 am That’s the thing. For all the joking about, Moyes can build a really good side on a decent budget. He is the opposite of flavour of the month, he seems to be loathed by footy fans everywhere after Man Utd, but I think he has fire in his belly. I also liked his coaching team.

I would like us to be more like dirty old Leeds than the soft-bellied side we are now.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Wilko1304 »

The way this always comes back to Moyes is almost Trumpian in deflection of very well-made arguments that have cut his believed positives to pieces.

Moyes has built a team, we don’t know he still can. As much evidence to suggest not.

He would be a reactive appointment. He didn’t do that well anyway. He had little respect from Sullivan so it would be a daft appointment and a holding period until they could get rid of him.

I do believe he could do for Everton, that’s a mentality thing though. And because he could go in there with the confidence that he’s delivered there before and haven’t done as well since his departure.

Ability arguments are a lot of opinion, so if we take it on other things, I’d suggest it’s a bad idea because he’s had negative previous with us, would send a negative message, is too dissimilar to what’s already there and it wouldn’t be welcomed by the majority of fans
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Cellar-door »

Wilko1304 wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:51 am The way this always comes back to Moyes is almost Trumpian in deflection of very well-made arguments that have cut his believed positives to pieces.

Moyes has built a team, we don’t know he still can. As much evidence to suggest not.

He would be a reactive appointment. He didn’t do that well anyway. He had little respect from Sullivan so it would be a daft appointment and a holding period until they could get rid of him.

I do believe he could do for Everton, that’s a mentality thing though. And because he could go in there with the confidence that he’s delivered there before and haven’t done as well since his departure.

Ability arguments are a lot of opinion, so if we take it on other things, I’d suggest it’s a bad idea because he’s had negative previous with us, would send a negative message, is too dissimilar to what’s already there and it wouldn’t be welcomed by the majority of fans

Yeah, the problem with everyone harkening back to Moyes at Everton is:
1. It was a different financial era
2. Almost any successful manager built a team, Pelle built teams in the past, so did every manager on the odds list, not many managers don't change teams they take over in the windows.


Honestly, people are just being ridiculous when they say.... "you're only as good as your last season" then turn around and point to what a manager did almost 7 years and 4 sackings ago.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by HammerWest »

There's an Australian manager who's just won the J-league with Yokohama F. Marinos. He's been managing for twenty years. His sides play a good brand of attacking football. Always have. I know I'll get slated on here for suggesting this but West Ham could do a lot worse than appointing Ange Postecoglou as manager. A bit out of left field, maybe, but quite possibly a decent fit for us.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by BondsoBob »

Bloody hell IB. Just because you didn't get the Everton gig you're throwing your hat into the ring for the West Ham one again!
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by hammerman11 »

so kovac is looking like he is everton bound. just leaves arsenal to have first pick now of what is left.

if we lose to them on Monday what will the clowns do ? wait until Southampton when there is a near 2 week break ?

pelle cant inspire anyone and we need to cut our losses after Monday night. what is the point in waiting for the inevitable.

does anyone think pelle can turn it around ? we will have the odd result as the players work hard, graft, know what they have to do and all the usual crap noble and all spout on the website.

we need to plan and give the new man a few games before the window.

howe is looking like he needs a new challenge and would be cheap re compo. pelle and his mega pay off is the problem and I reckon the Daves are waiting for it to get worse to push him towards a compromise deal. risky as we will be bottom 3 and howe may have gone elsewhere or stayed .
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Re: Who Next? The odds

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BondsoBob wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:52 am Bloody hell IB. Just because you didn't get the Everton gig you're throwing your hat into the ring for the West Ham one again!
Don’t be so pessimistic!
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Re: Who Next? The odds

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hammerman11 wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:38 am so kovac is looking like he is everton bound. just leaves arsenal to have first pick now of what is left.

if we lose to them on Monday what will the clowns do ? wait until Southampton when there is a near 2 week break ?

pelle cant inspire anyone and we need to cut our losses after Monday night. what is the point in waiting for the inevitable.

does anyone think pelle can turn it around ? we will have the odd result as the players work hard, graft, know what they have to do and all the usual crap noble and all spout on the website.

we need to plan and give the new man a few games before the window.

howe is looking like he needs a new challenge and would be cheap re compo. pelle and his mega pay off is the problem and I reckon the Daves are waiting for it to get worse to push him towards a compromise deal. risky as we will be bottom 3 and howe may have gone elsewhere or stayed .
Kovac would be a weird appointment. Even his title season at Bayern was won more in spite of him due to the old guard. Once they left this season he was pretty clueless.

Would be funny if the Dildos signed a deal with Howe the season he relegated Bournemouth. Not looking beyond the realm of possibility given their form of late

I guess there is an element of glamour, but I have a sneaking suspicion he would be a bad appointment.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Tenbury »

To hell with it, let's just sign Moyes or Allardyce, anyone else might just possibly relight the tiniest glimmer of enthusiasm and even hope. I'd hate that, it's the hope that kills you.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by steveyrockstar »

Boooogers! wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:59 pm Nope. I meant season.

Bilic is a case in point. Great first season. Sacked after a very poor first half of second season. Pardew...

Wenger another one although the decline was over a longer period.

Pretty much every manager that gets sacked does so on the basis of recent form. Past glories only buy them so much grace.
Ranieri and Pochettino are the two best examples of managers sacked the season after achieving the impossible. It's the way the modern game is these days though, no matter who the manager is, you go through an extended slump at a club that has any level of expectation, and you rarely survive. If Lyall was manager these days, you have to wonder how long his tenure would have been.

However, all that said, I don't think the achievements of Howe or Dyche should be discarded based on the fact their respective teams are currently struggling. Both have done well for their clubs over a longer period. Potter gets touted as a better option because Brighton are currently playing well, but he's only been there for 5 mins.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by jastons »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:01 pm Has Pellegrini given any indication he knows what's fundamentally wrong and how to fix it? If the answer is "No" then what's the point of keeping him?
That win away at Chelsea offered a glimmer of light. Unfortunately a defeat at Wolves and Everton thumping Chelsea means Pellegrini doesn't have a clue.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

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Ironing Board wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:38 am
I would like us to be more like dirty old Leeds than the soft-belied side we are now.
That’s because you don’t actually go.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by hammers92 »

Sean Dyche has to be looked at in the context of the job he's been asked to do. They don't spend that much, sponsorship and income among the worst in the league and in that time, grown the club and delivered european football. It really is an outstanding achievement.

Same with Howe, to keep a team as small as Bournemouth in the league for all this time whilst attempting to play a good way of football is admirable.

All managers hit rocky patches and get questioned. But these two have been rather consistent over the last few years and look ready for the next job. We would do well with either of them, preferably Howe, but I certainly wouldn't say no to Dyche.

English, young (in a PL manager's lifetime), and a clear track record of the league.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Aceface »

Ironing Board wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:38 am I guess there is an element of glamour, but I have a sneaking suspicion he would be a bad appointment.
Almost certainly, as all his downsides are the same as the ones we always suffer. If you want to break out of your own bad habits you want someone who can remedy them, not share them.

I understand the appeal on a personal level – there's a touch of the John Lyalls about him – but on a football level I don't fully understand the appeal.

What I would be curious to hear is what is it, when they look at the team he's built, that they admire? That squad is more his than any other 19 in the league – he's been there the longest, had a reasonable amount of money to spend, and works under the the lowest scrutiny and media pressure of any other manager, so it's not a house built by multiple architects like at many clubs. It's wholly his. Do you admire the football they play, the tactical innovation, the defensive resilience?

I'd also consider:

– How many cup semis and finals has he got to?
– How many players has he sold for big money or to someone further up the food chain? (This speaks to both player coaching and the fact he doesn't have to suffer squad churn every season like clubs that routinely lose their best player)
– Do you remember many upset victories away at the big boys? I can think of plenty of times the likes of Palace, Southampton etc have gone away and won at CL clubs, but am racking my brain for many from Bournemouth over the years.
– An average league placing of 12th.

He's doing a decent job for Bournemouth and seems like a decent man himself, but there don't seem to be any footballing reasons the likes of Arsenal, let alone us, should be chasing him.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by OFT »

hammerman11 wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:38 am so kovac is looking like he is everton bound. just leaves arsenal to have first pick now of what is left.

if we lose to them on Monday what will the clowns do ? wait until Southampton when there is a near 2 week break ?


does anyone think pelle can turn it around ? we will have the odd result as the players work hard, graft, know what they have to do and all the usual crap noble and all spout on the website.
Surprised Arsenal haven't had someone ready to step in straight away. Hanging on for Poch??

If we lose to them on Monday, don't pull the trigger then scrape a win V Southampton, what happens then?

With regard to turning it around, it may improve when Fab gets back but really, that'd be re-covering a multitude of sins.

With the apparent list of available managers looking rather thin I just don't know what the answer is.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Aceface »

hammers92 wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:17 am Same with Howe, to keep a team as small as Bournemouth in the league for all this time.
That 12k stadium is the biggest advantage Howe has – it means the club is permanently graded on a scale. When in reality the size of the turnstile receipts in the current era has a negligible bearing on a club's financial ability to compete (we should know, coming from the opposite end of the spectrum).
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Westbourne Bill »

Interesting that Bruce seems to be doing at least as good as job as Rafa at Newcastle yet he was hardly welcomed by their fans when appointed. Nor would he have been here.

Like Hodgson at Palace, able to make the most of limited resources and more importantly still able to motivate players.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by hammer1975 »

hammers92 wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:17 am Same with Howe, to keep a team as small as Bournemouth in the league for all this time whilst attempting to play a good way of football is admirable.
Has spent broadly the same as we have on transfers and wages since we moved to the bowl. The common perception of how much we spend versus clubs like Bournemouth and Brighton is not financially accurate. Bournemouth probably benefit from that stadium results wise and the media presentation of a little club is also a positive to them that would not be enjoyed at West Ham.

Howe’s teams are good at the dark arts without getting pulled up for it - I wonder whether we would get away with that?

I find it very hard to get excited about any of the potentials we’re being linked with tbh.
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Doc H Ball »

Aceface wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:19 am
He's doing a decent job for Bournemouth and seems like a decent man himself, but there don't seem to be any footballing reasons the likes of Arsenal, let alone us, should be chasing him.
He has done well keeping hold of players and replacing those that have gone.

Matt Richie was a player I would have liked us to buy. Howe does seem to produce aggressive midfielders who look to put the forwards through, which are like hen’s teeth around these parts. Brooks is injured but I thought he looked excellent last year and is worth far more than the money spent. Also doubled the money spent on Mings,

Another way of posing the question is to compare squads and see who he’s bought or brought through who would get in our team. I would argue that Brooks, Wilson, King, Fraser, Wilson and Ake would all walk into our first team and we couldn’t afford to buy them.

I’m not advocating getting rid of grandad, but if we do at least a move for Howe might suggest some sort of longer term planning rather than throwing money occasionally at a fan and hoping some sticks.
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