Who Next? The odds

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Tenbury
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Tenbury » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:16 am

I'll let others judge him...he hasn't managed anyone since we gave him the boot.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:16 am

Let's not get carried away. He did an 'OK' job. Nothing more first time round
There was some abysmal performances and some decent ones.
He set up defensively and played crap football relying on a defensive Base of six or seven and then a long ball to Arnie to make something happen

How that makes him appealing for another spell, i have no idea

No other club has touched him with a barge pole and we have gone in for him twice!

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Aceface » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:18 am

Gsbgsb wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:12 am
I’d rather judge Moyes by the job he did last time as opposed to name, reputation etc.
I'd rather judge Moyes on his entire career, where he's never achieved anything of note, where the fans of the club where he did his best work didn't want him back even as a caretaker, where he has failed at his last 3 permanent jobs, and where he spent our January transfer budget on a journeyman managed by his brother.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Brown Sauce » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:19 am

Gsbgsb wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:12 am
I’d rather judge Moyes by the job he did last time as opposed to name, reputation etc.
Ok let’s do that.

His points per game numbers are the second worst in our recent history.
Why would you re-appoint a manager with such an appalling record?

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Gsbgsb » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:27 am

There is nothing toxic about defending, all the good teams do it well. The reason City are not closer to Liverpool this season is not because of any failings in their attack but because they have not defended as well this season.

Some might be happy with a team that because of a total disregard of the basics of defending regularly gives away 2 or more goals a game, perhaps they see goal fests whoever may score them as “the West Ham way” however I would actually like to see us win games. The 1-0 wins at Chelsea and Southampton (when we did defend as a unit) were far more enjoyable for me than the 3-2 defeats at home we have suffered this season when we have not.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by -DL- » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:28 am

Ok, so let's try and look at this objectively. The league this season is tight as a gnats bum-hole. We sit one point above the relegation zone, and yet half way through the season we're 13 points off the top 4, 12 points off the top 6, and just 6 points off of the top half. We've given up 15 points from winning positions and have never gained a point when we've conceded first. Even if we converted a couple of those where we scored first loses in to wins, and converted a couple of those games where they had scored first in to draws, we'd be comfortably top 10.

Do we really need a massive overhaul, or do we need to play to our strengths and be a bit more solid at the back, and maintain fitness and concentration levels for 90 minutes each matchday?

I do appreciate our midield is on the weak side, but a bit of fitness and discipline could still make it in to an effective unit.

I am going to go against the grain here, but with the exception of Arnie, I actually think that we have a better set of players as things stand, than when Moyes took over last time - albeit not the numbers of players he had last time.

If it is him as next manager, and he can bring out the Anderson of old, get Haller firing, it may be not be as bad as things would appear on the face of it right now.

It's a funny old league this season, where realistically, if someone goes on a bad run from 9th downwards could be staring relegation in the face - and anyone from us upwards, could (not saying we will), with a good run, be fighting the the last remaining European spots in 19 games time.

I now it's all ifs and buts, but I cannot see how our former temporary manager, should he return, cannot improve greatly on the measly 19 points that we've gained in the previous 19 games.

Give him a chance I say, because as much as we can tout for a bigger name, or a young, hungry manager, they ain't going to come here.

Pellegrini I think ended up confusing his self, let alone the players - and as I said earlier in the season, we should be doing much better than we are, despite the imbalance of the squad.

Diop, Anderson, Haller, Rice, Yarmalenko, Lanzini - all very good players that are more than good enough for us, made to look like League 1 players (and I include Rice in that as he has had a few shockers, let's be fair) by the previous incumbent.

There are still 57 points to play for - and if it is Moyes that becomes our manager, I'm pretty sure he'll get more than 19 of them, like the previous bloke did for his share of 57.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by TommyHammer » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:29 am

I don't want Moyes back by any means as I believe out of principle it is embarrassing that we are re-appointing a bloke that we dismissed 18 months ago as he wasn't a high enough calibre manager.

However, I do think its a tad unfair to bring up win ratios/percentages under his time here without looking at the fact that he was brought in for half a season with a squad that wasn't his with the sole aim of keeping us up at all costs, and also at probably the most toxic period the club has been under since Gold and Sullivan came in.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Swiss Pauli » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:31 am

Brown Sauce wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:19 am
Ok let’s do that.

His points per game numbers are the second worst in our recent history.
Why would you re-appoint a manager with such an appalling record?
Can you also provide the context: how much did we spend on transfers under Moyes compared to Pellegrini, and also how many points per game did we get during 17-18 under Bilic?

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by aaronhammer » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:31 am

Pellegrini last 27 league games at West Ham
W 9
D 5
L 13
GF 36
GA 44
GD -8
Pts 32

Moyes 27 league games in 2017/18 at West Ham
W 8
D 9
L 10
GF 37
GA 45
GD -8
Pts 33

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Bamber Gascoigne » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:32 am

OFT wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:05 am
Pulis is in the mix to make Moyes more acceptable. . They won't appoint Pulis will they? :shock:
Ahh, but if you think like our illustrious owners 'Wallet & Grimace' you would see that Pullis offers an avenue for increased sales revenue in the form of free matchday advertising and modelling of the club track suit and cap..... :twisted:

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Brown Sauce » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:34 am

It was 31 games, not half a season.
After plenty of time with the squad we still got hammered at Swansea & Wigan and at home to Burnley.

Leicester, man united and Everton were all on the beach for those last 7 points.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Aceface » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:35 am

It seems impossible, but it does sometimes feel like people have forgotten the Burnley protest happened mid-Moyes reign – during a 3 goal thrashing no less. Does everyone remember what that felt like?

*That* was more representative of the Moyes period, not getting a result against a Leicester side that had downed tools for the season.

Gsbgsb
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Gsbgsb » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:35 am

Brown Sauce wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:19 am
Ok let’s do that.

His points per game numbers are the second worst in our recent history.
Why would you re-appoint a manager with such an appalling record?
Because the situation he faced then, broken, unfit, disinterested and disorganised team are exactly the situation the new manager, whoever it might be, is facing now. Would people have welcomed Nigel Pearson yet his Watford team are looking far better in almost every respect.

You read people suggesting just buy half a new team and we will be fine. Any new manager is not going to get half a new team of decent players especially out of these owners. Whoever it is is going to have to take the bulk of what he already has and produce a competitive team out of them.

I do not really care who that is provided they do that job.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Swiss Pauli » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:41 am

Aceface wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:35 am
It seems impossible, but it does sometimes feel like people have forgotten the Burnley protest happened mid-Moyes reign – during a 3 goal thrashing no less. Does everyone remember what that felt like?

*That* was more representative of the Moyes period, not getting a result against a Leicester side that had downed tools for the season.
For context: in 17-18 under Bilic we managed 0.82 points per game but under Moyes it was 1.19. Yes, there were some awful defeats, but Moyes kept the team going whilst others had downed tools.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by denzel » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:45 am

damiant wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:58 am
Get zlatan in, the lion can be player coach
I know you’re only kidding but he’s just signed for his former club AC Milan again. Will be interesting to see how he does over there to be fair. :thup:

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by denzel » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:46 am

Aceface wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:18 am
I'd rather judge Moyes on his entire career, where he's never achieved anything of note, where the fans of the club where he did his best work didn't want him back even as a caretaker, where he has failed at his last 3 permanent jobs, and where he spent our January transfer budget on a journeyman managed by his brother.
I’m trying to be positive about Gollum’s imminent arrival but Ace has it right. It’s depressing.

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TommyHammer
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by TommyHammer » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:47 am

A few journalists on twitter saying they expect Moyes to be done today.

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SiO
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by SiO » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:47 am

aaronhammer wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:31 am
Pellegrini last 27 league games at West Ham
W 9
D 5
L 13
GF 36
GA 44
GD -8
Pts 32

Moyes 27 league games in 2017/18 at West Ham
W 8
D 9
L 10
GF 37
GA 45
GD -8
Pts 33
I'm no fan of Moyes and hoped Pell would sort us out but the above illustrates more to me that Moyes did about as well but with a significantly worse team.

Fabianski got us a fair few undeserved points too last season no?

As I say though, I hoped Pell would sort things so feeling fairly rudderless this morning... Much like our team yesterday

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Aceface
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Aceface » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:47 am

Swiss Pauli wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:41 am
For context: in 17-18 under Bilic we managed 0.82 points per game but under Moyes it was 1.19. Yes, there were some awful defeats, but Moyes kept the team going whilst others had downed tools.
I take your point, but I'm not sure slightly improving on the broken husk of a man in charge immediately before is the best metric for his suitability for a permanent gig.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Brown Sauce » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:48 am

0.82 points from 10 games? Hardly a fair comparison.

Moyes delivered roughly a point a game, which is pretty much what got Pellegrini the sack. What’s the point?

Why must we always look backwards?
Are we saying the very best we can attract is 38 points a season which (should) see us stay up on an average year?
Last edited by Brown Sauce on Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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