Protests against the board being planned

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Nesticles
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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Nesticles » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:33 pm

Relegation should help with people not going

Be a lovely sight seeing that dump in the Championship next season with tiers closed off and the stadium half empty

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Doc H Ball
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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Doc H Ball » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:33 pm

I’ve found it difficult to post on this thread. Tried a few times now and ended up deleting them.

My view is that no crowd protest, so to speak, can be led. There’s either the spontaneous momentum or there’s not. Our crowd have also been bitten once and tbh I don’t believe there’s the appetite for a march, matchday protest, boycott etc.

The issue is also unclear. Stadium, ownership, investment, lack of dialogue... I fully appreciate that HU follow the requests of their members and put forward what they want, which is commendable, but to the general supporter it will look like protesting over results not issues.

A point has been reached, however. The Club refuse to enter dialogue with ISAs and will only discuss fan issues through the OSB. That seems to have reached an end despite complaints to the Club, the SLO, the chair of the OSB, UEFA and the Government overseeing governance.

So, what to do? I think something direct and to the point. A picket at the next OSB meeting, writing to each individual on the OSB, a media stunt at a Brady corporate do, a giant banner ‘Why Won’t You Talk To Us? appearing at somewhere embarrassing, or the like.

I support HU whatever they decide, but any protest should be targeted.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by e17 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:55 pm

In 2019, You win hearts and minds by understanding how modern viral marketing works and where you target

The last time we nearly had a movement, it was the wrong people at the right time, and not to delve too much into the past and why what followed followed, but the figureheads behind the movement had the audience but neither the knowledge or methods to follow through on a legit, media savvy action - I didn’t and still don’t believe the march as originally envisioned would have ended any better than the outcome of the events on the day inside the stadium against Burnley

I say all of the above, because the club would be obliterated and taken apart for what they are if the right social media and kids of kids of WHU went after them

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Samba » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:04 pm

Johnny_C WHU wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:26 pm
Anyone else on Twitter see the post from 'a close club source' descripting an open letter from a fan called "John" blaming the fans for our downfall? Its hysterical!
Haven't you heard, it's all us fans' fault?
We MADE Gold & Sullivan save us.
They wanted to bring Neymar & Messi here but we said, 'no, that wouldn't be fair on all the other teams, we'll have Simone Zaza & Jonathan Calleri instead. And being true West Ham fans, they listened to us, as they always do'.
They wanted us to stay at Upton Park, even talking about redeveloping the East Stand but we said, 'no, we want you to blow up the Boleyn Ground, sell the land mysteriously for a pittance & make us play in an athletics stadium, not at all suitable for watching football in'. They said, 'but, but'...'NO', we said, 'we WANT to be sat further away from the action, we're fed up with being close to the pitch & being able to identify the players'.
'But', they said, 'what about all the local businesses around Upton Park & how their livelihoods will probably be destroyed, if we move'. 'F*ck 'em', we said, 'they've had it too good for too long, they're holding us back & anyway, the bus garage is going to be there forever so you won't be able to rebuild the East Stand, anyway'.
So you see, what some have been coming on here & elsewhere saying, they're quite correct, it IS all our fault.
Stupid, greedy supporters. Always demanding too much.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Ingwe » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:10 pm

Great post Samba. :thup:

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Northbank Bar » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:28 pm

Doc,you are a well liked and respected(not least by me)part of the old skool fan base.I well know that you are sensible and level headed whilst at the same time hugely passionate about West Ham, and that you have proved before that you are not afraid to protest if the cause is just.I therefore take your comments very much on board.

The point has not quite been reached,we have a couple of cards still to play.-But the possibility of us having to pressurise the club moves ever nearer.

Hammers United has 2 issues.The failure of the club to engage, and(as directed by our members)that the club sanction the best possible expenditure in the January window.We believe these are reasonable requests.

If the time does come when we are forced to protest then Hammers United Committee would be guided by the members .Your suggestions are both sensible and realistic and perhaps could form part of what we decide to do.

Of course the many failings of the Board and broken promises made by them will undoubtably be in supporters minds when deciding whether or not to support if we decide to take action.That is not our doing,the club will have brought that on themselves.


Thanks for your observations which are taken in the spirit they were intended.To one Hammer from another.

UP THE HAMMERS!

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:35 pm

Northbank

agreed about Doc and I unfortunately feel he's correct in many aspects.

I have mentioned your 2 main points of contention.

1) engage - yes for sure pressure needs exerting but they have the OSB and the guidelines are just that. guidelines.

2) spend - I don't feel that any supporters clubs anywhere have any right to ask the club to invest. it's not their remit. and who is to say how much should be the spend ? I have mentioned here in the past, no one has any type of "right" to tell companies how to invest their money. supporters don't put the bulk of the money in. in fact the armchair fan has as much right (not me, I stream) as they pay into sky or whomever (NBC in the States). and shareholders of companies don't get to tell the company in most cases how to spend money.


I think Doc is more correct. you may want to reconsider.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Doc H Ball » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:40 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:35 pm
guidelines are just that, guidelines..
They are Regulations.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:50 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:40 pm
They are Regulations.
think you're wrong there Doc we looked it up..in fact I think even HU mention it. it was discussed here earlier. they're guidelines I am almost certain. which is why we say they are conforming....

not sure how many pages back it was that we looked into it, me an SLWO, but I can't seem to find the thing now..

maybe without me trawling through this thread someone at HU can confirm

and I am in no way shape or form onside with the club in this....

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Northbank Bar » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:55 pm

Cuenca.I will answer tomorrow cos I have to go to work now.-However, we cannot reconsider.This is our mandate as voted for by our members,-And actually I agree with them._I believe that in view of promises made the supporters do have the right to expect the club to provide a squad able to keep this club in the Premier League.
Speak tomorrow.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by ironsonthebrain » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:00 pm

I don’t think there’ll be a protest.
Last time the owners bought off the geriatric members of the ICF and then it all became ‘I’m not ‘aving no effing lefties marching on my manor’ - and the fan base divided down the middle.
Which we have remained ever since!

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Phil S » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:15 pm

Doc you are a man I'm happy to call a friend..I have the upmost respect for you and Wansted, and also Bubbles.

I imagine it was difficult for you to wrote that but I fully understand. To be honest when it comes to deciding when and how it's so difficult because of all the differing opinions.

I'm fully behind HU but I really don't give a **** for any reason to protest...if they still won't talk then I don't want to ask for anything of them.

So if I'm marching or whatever I'm doing, it's out of hatred for those 3 and what they've done.
They can take their dildos and shove them where the sun doesn't shine.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:17 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:40 pm
They are Regulations.
Doc I went back looking and this quote is from HU

The football governance guidelines state 'every club should officially recognise the relevant supporters groups or trusts'

and I saw something somewhere from Pinky in that it's a regulation for European teams or it might have been teams playing in European competitions but it is not a regulation

in the HU launch campaign for dialogue thread....

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Doc H Ball » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:39 pm

Cuenca, I can’t find the relevant PL Rules at the mo, but they echo UEFA regs. The PL is affiliated to and signed up to UEFA’s regs.

This is taken from HU’s letter to DCMS:

West Ham are bound by Article 35 of the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations https://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Do ... WNLOAD.pdf as well as other requirements and guidance with regards engagement with independent supporter groupings. Article 35 obliges affiliated Clubs to have ‘proper and constructive dialogue’ with fans and was designed to allow them to have an insight into affairs that affect them.
UEFA’s Regulations were further enforced in the UK by way of the Football Governance guidelines https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 8207_2.pdf
The recommendations of the DCMS’ Select Committee’s response (HC792-1) to the initial committee enquiry headed by Professor Richard Giulianotti (FG 29) in 2011 is explicit in its support of football club engagement with relevant supporter groups in its guidance to the Premier and Football Leagues.
The wording and intention of these Government guidelines are clear, expressing recognition of the problematic and avoidable challenges caused by recalcitrant attitudes at Football Clubs whose choice to disassociate and not properly listen to their supporters and the solutions offered by having open dialogue.
At paragraph 38 they state:
‘The Government believes that every Club should officially recognise the relevant supporters groups or trusts and keep an open dialogue with them. They should hold regular and annual general meetings at which these groups are invited to take part and at which appropriate financial and other information can be shared and consulted upon’.
West Ham have specifically refused to engage in such dialogue, hold such meetings, share such information or properly consult with independent formal groups and the OSB is inadequate for these purposes.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:52 pm

Doc H Ball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:39 pm
Cuenca, I can’t find the relevant PL Rules at the mo, but they echo UEFA regs. The PL is affiliated to and signed up to UEFA’s regs.

This is taken from HU’s letter to DCMS:


UEFA’s Regulations were further enforced in the UK by way of the Football Governance guidelines https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 8207_2.pdf

The recommendations of the DCMS’ Select Committee’s response (HC792-1) to the initial committee enquiry headed by Professor Richard Giulianotti (FG 29) in 2011 is explicit in its support of football club engagement with relevant supporter groups in its guidance to the Premier and Football Leagues.
The wording and intention of these Government guidelines are clear, expressing recognition of the problematic and avoidable challenges caused by recalcitrant attitudes at Football Clubs whose choice to disassociate and not properly listen to their supporters and the solutions offered by having open dialogue.
At paragraph 38 they state:
‘The Government believes that every Club should officially recognise the relevant supporters groups or trusts and keep an open dialogue with them. They should hold regular and annual general meetings at which these groups are invited to take part and at which appropriate financial and other information can be shared and consulted upon’.
West Ham have specifically refused to engage in such dialogue, hold such meetings, share such information or properly consult with independent formal groups and the OSB is inadequate for these purposes.
now back in the other thread we (and we were just asking mate for clarification) ended up with the FACT that the OSB cannot be affiliated due them not being independently voted in.

other than that though, we couldn't find anything REQUIRING the club to have an independent supporters assoc.

even HU agreed on that point. the discussion came about (in a friendly and informative way) because Sammy Lee and myself felt that the club would have some legal input and know where they need or not to be required to have an independent supporters assoc.

they are dumb, but not stupid.

as for the other point, and we are in a good dialogue I ain't trying to be an antagonist by any means but honestly why should supporters be able to require a club to spend money ? and how much is "a decent or required spend ?"

that's just me looking for HU to aim at areas where they could get give and take. asking them to spend money is, imvho, a complete non starter.

next the supporters associations would be telling any club which position(s) to spend it on. being Devil's Advocate, were I GS&B I'd tell them to take a hike. where does it stop ? (being ridiculous - tell the manager which team to pick) in fact they do that every week on the * & * place - well they "vote" but it's a thinly disguised pick the team deal to me.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Doc H Ball » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:53 pm

Cuenca, you missed out the UEFA Articles. As I said there’s also the PL Rules. The Articles say they should be read as intended.

This won’t end up in a Court unless someone wants to pay a fortune for a JR of DCMS or raise in the Court of Arbitration for Sport, but reading the regs, guidance, rules in the intended spirit and looking at practice (only 2 Clubs out of 92 etc) then I reckon it would fly.
Not going to happen mind so a bit irrelevant.

If the MP raises it or Supporters Direct adopt it though then it should make a splash. That’s enough to justify it I think.

Anyway, it’s reaching an endgame. If the Club refuse dialogue after all proper attempts at it have been made, then more fool them. It’s why Burnley happened.

I agree about the squad investment, but as NBB said, HU is driven by its members and I respect that.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Samba » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:06 am

Doc H Ball wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:53 pm
Anyway, it’s reaching an endgame. If the Club refuse dialogue after all proper attempts at it have been made, then more fool them. It’s why Burnley happened.
:thup: Doc.
And that was only an unorganised, couple of hundred Hammers, who did a splendid job.
Imagine what HU could do..

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Northbank Bar » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:27 am

Cuenca.Rules and regulations have been debated on here already at great length.I don't think any of us can gain from doing the whole thing over and over again.The process is taking it's course and the club may still decide to engage.-Let us hope so.

We have cited the regulations to support our request that they meet but the real issue to our members and West Ham fans in general is what is right and wrong.Every other Premier League team meets with it's supporters.-89 of thel91 League clubs meet with their supporters.Our members are not too bothered about rules and regulations,they know what is right and what is wrong and they are campaigning for West Ham to do what is right.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Mega Ron » Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:56 am

ironsonthebrain wrote:
Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:00 pm
I don’t think there’ll be a protest.
Last time the owners bought off the geriatric members of the ICF and then it all became ‘I’m not ‘aving no effing lefties marching on my manor’ - and the fan base divided down the middle.
Which we have remained ever since!
They didn't really. Much more vicious people were involved.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by hammerman11 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:07 am

after 45 years of attending games I am reaching the stage when I regularly think what is the point now. the best days of football have gone not just at west ham but all over. too expensive too many tourists and we of course are in the awful bowl.
maybe I and others have had enough of the circus and its time to call it a day , maybe only watching us on TV without the hassle of getting there, stewards, no atmosphere and awful team on the pitch.

a few protests will see us fans painted as violent scumbags by the media and friends of the board. a few chants at live games maybe but what else is there. 2 years on and we are back to square one with us seriously looking at rehiring moyes !


This will be my last season I fear as I just don't enjoy it any more.

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