Protests against the board being planned

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by -DL- » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:19 am

Monkeybubbles wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:56 am
I don't understand the requirement to stay in the prem. Its not what football's about, for me, and its just not that enjoyable. As is often said, it's become about the business rather than the game. I wouldn't miss it.

I enjoyed our stints in the championship far, far more than most recent seasons. I've got mates who support Fulham, Pompey, Orient, and even with all the bad times they've had they still care and they still enjoy a day out.

I would rather watch 11 players giving it a go in front of 5k proper fans against Gillingham, than endure more "what's the least we can get away with" while the stooges bend us over. In fact, I'd start going again if that happens.
So what's the point in even existing then? A football club exists to do the best they can. So what do we do, go down and wish to stay there? Because ultimately we'll go down just to try and get back up again. Even the clubs you mention have experienced promotion, or at least attempted promotions. But, you know, if you're happy to see us never sign the odd lucky player like Payet again, see Rice go, academy graduates go before they've kicked a ball for us, then fill your boots. I was at the Gillingham game, and it wasn't a 11 players giving it a go, it was 11 players on one side being cloggers, and 11 players on the other side unable to break them down until the end of the game. It was bloody awful.

Personally, I would rather be in the top flight and even struggle, because for me, nothing feels better than getting one over on the big-boys, something that, despite the crap we've seen this season, we've done twice V Man Utd and Chelsea, or getting one (or 3!) over Tottenham.

There's something pretty **** about heading up to town on a Tuesday night going to see West Ham v Preston North End, whilst fans of clubs we got the odd win over are on the same train as you about to watch their team vs Barcelona in The CL.

Where I grew up, the fan rivalry is between West Ham, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and at the time Liverpool then Man Utd. Personally, I still want to be playing those clubs and having the occasional bragging rights with my mates that support those clubs, having the banter with them, and them giving it back in return.

Their our rivals in the strictest sense, not bloody Charlton, Orient, Fulham or whoever. It's not just about the day out, the quality of football and stuff like that. it's the afterwards, the chats in the pub with the mates who support those teams that I grew up with. Perhaps you feel different down there on the South coast, but for a lot of us who grew up in London, Essex, even Kent.

But yeah, let's go down because it will be fun. After a few years, I bet it won't be when we can't banter with our Spurs mate because we beat them 3 times in a season, or take the piss out of our Chelsea mate when we nick a win off them. Doing the same with our Orient mate, our Fulham mate, our Pompy mate - nah, just doesn't have the right ring to it for me.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by spod » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:27 am

This probably belongs in the relegation thread, but to answer the question: no, Gold and Sullivan won't sell if we go down.
The value of the club will be reduced, and they will bank on a quick promotion back to the top flight in time for their big payday.
What will happen is a fire sale, of course.
Also, a huge chunk of the fan base who don't really see what's wrong with GSB will turn against them.
I wouldn't be surprised if they all kept a much lower profile - maybe even staying away from games if things go bad in the Championship.
I think we'd still get 25,000+ for most games. There'll be an immovable rump of diehard season ticket-holders. Away fans will want to come, and there'll be plenty of room for them. But even 25,000 will look sparse in our stadium.
Moyes would be our manager. God knows who'll be playing for us.
It won't be a pleasant experience for any of us, and it won't rid us of the scum in the boardroom.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by -DL- » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:31 am

As an aside - Monkeybubblles and SH - this isn't a pop, but I think it can't be a coincidence that two people who (I presume?) are not from the locality both feel the way you do.

This isn't a pop at you guys at all, but perhaps supporting West Ham means different things when you're not part of the area that's full of Tottenahm, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc? And I don't mean the glory hunters either, I mean the real fans - and loads of them, not just the odd one or two.

Not a criticism, just an observation, for all I know you both may have grown up around these parts, but if you didn't, perhaps that's why you're both on the same page.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Colours never run » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:34 am

25,000 still rocking up would genuinely amaze me should we get relegated. It would tell many fans would still continue to put up with just about anything that they offered up.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by LOS » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:39 am

Colours never run wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:34 am
25,000 still rocking up would genuinely amaze me should we get relegated. It would tell many fans would still continue to put up with just about anything that they offered up.
Being relegated is one of the few things that will get me back attending. Proper people who want to be there. People who want to watch their club play, regardless of the opposition. I fail to see the negatives from a match-goers perspective.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Colours never run » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:44 am

LOS wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:39 am
Being relegated is one of the few things that will get me back attending. Proper people who want to be there. People who want to watch their club play, regardless of the opposition. I fail to see the negatives from a match-goers perspective.
You fail to see the negatives of watching football in a less than half empty soulless bowl?

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by S-H » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:45 am

-DL- wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:19 am
A football club exists to do the best they can.
If that were true in our case, then I'm sure the Premier League, may have more of an appeal, if we had any other ambition, any other purpose, than to just do enough to survive, then it may well be worthwhile experience to exist in the Premier League.

But in our current State, with our current ownership we merely exist to survive in the Premier League, the hope of an occasional scalp, is a meagre existence, but if you find that enjoyable, then fair play to you, there is life, and enjoyable football to be had, outside the Premier League.

I would love us to stay up, under an ambitious ownership, but under this lot, there is no ambition, other than milking the Sky Premier League cash cow, so what is the point?

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Monkeybubbles » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:46 am

-DL- wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:31 am
As an aside - Monkeybubblles and SH - this isn't a pop, but I think it can't be a coincidence that two people who (I presume?) are not from the locality both feel the way you do.

This isn't a pop at you guys at all, but perhaps supporting West Ham means different things when you're not part of the area that's full of Tottenahm, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc? And I don't mean the glory hunters either, I mean the real fans - and loads of them, not just the odd one or two.

Not a criticism, just an observation, for all I know you both may have grown up around these parts, but if you didn't, perhaps that's why you're both on the same page.
FWIW, I'm originally from Clapton.

I understand your point, totally.

I would love us to be successful, I would love us to be the ones on a train to watch Barcelona. That isn't going to happen with this mob, though, is it?

I don't love us hanging on to the premiership by the skin of our teeth season after season, five at the back plus two DMs, hoping for a draw against Southampton, and all so that GSB can continue to feed on the corpse. That's not success, that's being mugged.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Heysel76 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:54 am

Diogenes wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:13 am

If you want 'real' football with small crowds, tight ground etc. then support your local club, they would be more grateful for your support than West Ham ever will.
What if West Ham WAS your local club?
Last edited by Heysel76 on Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Aztec Hammer » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:55 am

-DL- wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:31 am
As an aside - Monkeybubblles and SH - this isn't a pop, but I think it can't be a coincidence that two people who (I presume?) are not from the locality both feel the way you do.

This isn't a pop at you guys at all, but perhaps supporting West Ham means different things when you're not part of the area that's full of Tottenahm, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc? And I don't mean the glory hunters either, I mean the real fans - and loads of them, not just the odd one or two.

Not a criticism, just an observation, for all I know you both may have grown up around these parts, but if you didn't, perhaps that's why you're both on the same page.
I was born and brought up in East London, still live here now and probably live closer to the current stadium than anyone on this forum. I walk to games when I go.

It means nothing. You’re barking up the wrong tree trying to reason that the viewpoints that monkeybubbles and SH have are anything to do with ‘experiencing’ West Ham differently because of where they might be from or might have been brought up.

I agree with what they say and for the most part disagree with your last couple of posts.

There’s no connection between the geography of a West Ham fan and their views on the Prem or relegation. I won’t speak for monkeybubbles or SH (or anyone else from wherever they might be) but I’d hazard to say that they don’t care about relegation for the same reason as me... they consider the Prem to be a fun vacuum joke of a competition, more business than football. Your post was verging on gatekeeping West Ham fandom to be honest.

You say the point of a football club is to do as good as they can, but is it? Is that really the point of West Ham in the Premier League these days?

It isn’t remotely abnormal that there might be fans out there that think back to the last time/s we were outside the top flight and have much richer memories than any of the last poxy 8 years. I’m one of them.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by -DL- » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:59 am

LOS wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:39 am
Being relegated is one of the few things that will get me back attending. Proper people who want to be there. People who want to watch their club play, regardless of the opposition. I fail to see the negatives from a match-goers perspective.
Lets just say, at best, and I think here I'm being a tad optimistic, that we get 30k at our home games. You seriously think that will be more enjoyable than if we have 60k there in The PL. Even with that amount we struggle to generate an atmosphere aside from the big games against teams that bring a healthy away support.

How would the atmosphere be when a side brings say 900 away fans on a Tuesday night in the freezing bloody cold and rain? Or at any time to be honest.

The stadium will always be the stadium, the lifeless, soulless bowl with the same walk, the same stop go boards (although with half the fans, they may go. Every cloud and all that), but instead of it being against our long-standing local rivals, we're entertaining Rotherham or Peterborough.

You'd be able to generate atmosphere at Upton park, but here? Not a chance in hell. Aside from away games where there is usually a good following and atmosphere, we'll be playing 23 games in the godforsaken place.

Relegation now would be nothing like we've ever known it before, so there's actually no point comparing it to the times we've gone down previously. Going to Upton Park was still enjoyable.

Would be interesting to see the attendances for when we were down there last, because people go on about this hard core support - 1000's have turned it in because of the stadium. They ain't going to come back, because the stadium will still be the stadium, and guess what? GSB will STILL be here. Anyone that thinks they'll sell up when we go down is bonkers. Nobody will buy us even if they did decide to bail.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by S-H » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:00 am

-DL- wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:31 am
As an aside - Monkeybubblles and SH - this isn't a pop, but I think it can't be a coincidence that two people who (I presume?) are not from the locality both feel the way you do.

This isn't a pop at you guys at all, but perhaps supporting West Ham means different things when you're not part of the area that's full of Tottenahm, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc? And I don't mean the glory hunters either, I mean the real fans - and loads of them, not just the odd one or two.

Not a criticism, just an observation, for all I know you both may have grown up around these parts, but if you didn't, perhaps that's why you're both on the same page.
I've personally not lived locally to the club, so maybe you have a point, maybe I've not got that inbuilt tribalism, that one might have being brought up close to the club, or in and around our London rivals, but it doesn't mean I care any less, or don't want the absolute best for my football club.

For me the life has been sucked out of the club, the only thing that gets the blood flowing again, is the Hammers United movement, and everything they are doing, which is why I'll be at the next protest, but I will not be attending the game.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by EastBrisHammer » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am

-DL- wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:31 am
As an aside - Monkeybubblles and SH - this isn't a pop, but I think it can't be a coincidence that two people who (I presume?) are not from the locality both feel the way you do.

This isn't a pop at you guys at all, but perhaps supporting West Ham means different things when you're not part of the area that's full of Tottenahm, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc? And I don't mean the glory hunters either, I mean the real fans - and loads of them, not just the odd one or two.

Not a criticism, just an observation, for all I know you both may have grown up around these parts, but if you didn't, perhaps that's why you're both on the same page.
I think you have a point there DL. There are so many plastic glory-hunting fans down here in Bristol. The younger generation are the worst as they know nothing outside the top 6. I was talking to one lad once and he wasn't even sure who Payet was as he had never played for one of the Prem big boys. He even said he probably wasn't very good otherwise he would be playing for Chelsea or Man City. The worse I had was the 2006 FA Cup Final when a Liverpool fan told me that they needed to win the trophy more than us as their season would be a failure while ours was a success just for getting to the final. I restrained myself from lamping him one and told him that the trophy would mean a hundred times more to a West Ham fan than a Liverpool fan. It would be something cherished while they would soon forget it. He just didn't get it.

In another incident I witnessed a lad shouting at the TV during an Arsenal vs Man United match, calling the Arsenal team cockney ****ers while my mate shouted at him that cockneys didn't come from north London and that he was a ****ing idiot. He continued on regardless. Then some people behind us said, "Isn't that Dave? I thought he supported Bristol City?", to which someone replied, "Yeah he does but he loves Man United too." Summed it up really.

I do miss the football bants I used to have when I worked in London.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by westham,eggyandchips » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am

I wouldn't care how long we were down in the lower leagues if it saw the end to the current ownership. I mean that sincerely.

Would it be good? Probably not as a spectacle, but I want these people gone so much it hurts. Banter with friends/fans of other clubs doesn't interest me as we have more pressing matters in hand.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by LOS » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:05 am

-DL- wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:59 am
Lets just say, at best, and I think here I'm being a tad optimistic, that we get 30k at our home games. You seriously think that will be more enjoyable than if we have 60k there in The PL.
Honestly, IMO, yes I do think it will be better. Quality over quantity.

I've been to loads of Champ / L1 / L2 grounds this season as a nomad.

Virtually every game I've been to had a capacity fill of no more than say 50-70% popoulated. And, hand on heart, EVERY one of those clubs / grounds generates a better atmosphere and pre / post match experience.

The 60k number at the OS doesn't imrpess me, simply because we are infiltrated with 1000's of hangers on (Prem League fans, selfie hunters etc etc). The core DNA of West Ham has been diluited, too much too soon. :crest:

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by -DL- » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:08 am

Aztec Hammer wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:55 am

Long post I won't quote fully...
I'm not barking up the wrong tree at all, it was an observation, a point it turned out that Monkey understood, even if he didn't agree with, and I certainly wasn't gatekeeping fandom.

Obviously you have the right to disagree with what I said, I'm not expecting everyone and anyone to be on the same page - but by the same token, the times we have been down before have been in a nice, compact, 38,000 seater stadium with hard-core support, where if we had an attendance of 25k, it could still be noisy, occasionally intimidating and able to create an atmosphere - people sitting in seats in the same parts of the ground they'd sat for years - concentrated blocks of the stands that were buzzing no matter what.

Now we have the support fragmented around a massive bowl, a lot of the hard core support jacking it in, and we could quite possibly be playing games with over half the seats empty - possibly more if it does go up to the 66k.

It's going to be blooming awful. And GSB will still be here.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by -DL- » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:09 am

LOS wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:05 am
Honestly, IMO, yes I do think it will be better. Quality over quantity.

I've been to loads of Champ / L1 / L2 grounds this season as a nomad.

Virtually every game I've been to had a capacity fill of no more than say 50-70% popoulated. And, hand on heart, EVERY one of those clubs / grounds generates a better atmosphere and pre / post match experience.

There's a reason for that. They play in football grounds, and not athletic stadiums, in traditional areas, with grounds in housing estates, with burger vans, tat stalls, and all the other stuff we once had until 2016.

It's all very well if you're in the 1500-2000 that get an away ticket if you're lucky enough. Not so great for the supporter that only does home games.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Corney Beal » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:16 am

Colours never run wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:44 am
You fail to see the negatives of watching football in a less than half empty soulless bowl?


Being outsung by 500 Rotherham fans.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by Porkeyes » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:16 am

I prefer Championship football these days it's more in the English style I recognise and grew up with. The play acting and cheating foreign ways that everyone used to laugh at have now become the norm in the Prem. Some high profile games are pathetic, literally taking it turns to fall over and feign injury until an actual foul happens when they can wave the imaginary yellow. VAR killing the whole point of it when you can no longer celebrate a goal properly. The game has evolved into a right load of dog ****. Not to mention the skew to the clubs with money buying all the young talent so nobody else can get a look in.

I can understand the " being the best we can be" argument but that doesn't apply to WHU in the Premier League does it? We exist purely to cling on and line the liars pockets, rinse, repeat. Something has to change, hopefully it's the scum selling up before we go down but that's highly unlikely. If you go to games for the whole day out experience, especially away then the Championship is great , more games, different grounds , decent allocations and above all else, a CHANCE of picking up a result in every game. ie there's more sport to it which is the part that is being lost in the Prem.

So for me it hurts GSB and I will start going again, if only away games.

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Re: Protests against the board being planned

Post by LOS » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:18 am

-DL- wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:09 am
There's a reason for that. They play in football grounds, and not athletic stadiums, in traditional areas, with grounds in housing estates, with burger vans, tat stalls, and all the other stuff we once had until 2016.

It's all very well if you're in the 1500-2000 that get an away ticket if you're lucky enough. Not so great for the supporter that only does home games.
Fully agree, but where they also differ is on the motivation of attending clientel. West Ham is now a known as a cheap, easy available tickets, premier league day out. A neturel fans haven. Relegation in my mind eliminates the hangers on. We've got to find our idenity again, and go on from there.

Fair enough to those desperately wanting PL survival. But i fear nothing of relegation, in fact, would welcome it.

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