David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Does exactly what it says on the tin - the forum for football-related discussion.

Moderators: chalks, the pink palermo, -DL-, Gnome, Rio, bristolhammerfc

Post Reply
User avatar
Discobar
Posts: 1120
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:41 pm

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Discobar » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:36 am

Twist

User avatar
Wilko1304
Posts: 3891
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:36 pm
Location: "Once you start complicating things the end result is less inflatables"

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Wilko1304 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:40 am

Morocco Mole wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:51 am
People really need to marinade on this bit. :thup:

He assembled an impressive coaching team - Did he? Stuart Pearce is roundly criticised and not known as a good coach. Irvine? Once, maybe, but I am not sure he is "impressive"
fulfilled his remit in keeping us up - The lowest of bars is not something I should be happy with him achieving. He had over half a season and did not smash any expectations, he basically scratched through and did a job he'd be sacked for as any other West Ham manager.
Even if you hated the football - this is a huge problem. Why support a club if you hate the football?
he at least instilled a bit of professionalism and integrity round the place - I don't really know if that's true. As a man known for threatening a woman with a slap, I also know from the horse's mouth that he undermined the analytics staff, whilst he got us battered by teams and perpetuated the misery in the club.
Let's give him the respect he seems to want to give us - He just wants a job, any Premier League job.
I've got quite a few problems with the above statements, Mole. I'm not massively against the person, the human being, but it's a bad appointment on many levels. If he makes it out with a good record, it'll be a very surprising and I still won't congratulate them for falling into it with no planning or guidance.
Last edited by Wilko1304 on Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
smfc
Posts: 627
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: Wanstead flats for a kickabout
Contact:

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by smfc » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:12 am

"I do believe that the squad of players I've got here is a better squad of players than when I took over before"

Oh bloody hell, Moyes actually said that. Pretty sure he (and us) is going to regret that when we inevitably get relegated.

User avatar
dodger
Posts: 12071
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Scotland / London / Japan / somewhere in between the 3

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by dodger » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:35 am

Looked in detail at Moyes’ time in charge last time, and overall I’d say it was ok. Not great, not terrible.

Wins
Chelsea home 1-0, Stoke away 3-0, West Brom home 2-1, Huddersfield away 4-1, Watford home 2-0, Southampton home 3-0, Leicester away 2-0, Everton home 3-1.

Draws
Leicester home 1-1, Arsenal home 0-0, Bournemouth away 3-3, Spurs away 1-1, Bournemouth home 1-1, Palace home 1-1, Chelsea away 1-1, Stoke home 1-1, Man Utd home 1-1.

Losses
Watford away 0-2, Everton away 0-4, Man City away 1-2, Newcastle Home 2-3, Brighton away 1-3. Liverpool away 1-4, Swansea away 1-4, Burnley home 0-3, Arsenal away 1-4, Man City home 1-4.

A few excellent performances (Chelsea home, Stoke away, Huddersfield away, Southampton home), a lot of ok/mixed ones and a few awful ones (Everton away, Brighton away, Swansea away). Basically a typical mid table effort. Also bear in mind he came into the job with a team which were all over the place, a bit like now, but just a few games later we were beating a very strong Chelsea side.

He’s not who I want but he wasn’t awful as some suggest during his first spell here.

User avatar
SRXT
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:12 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by SRXT » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:04 am

Until the owners f*** off this is what it's going to be like. Doubt going down will make them walk as it didn't last time, they already know the fans hate them, but cling on. They're a parasite and will keep sucking us dry until there's nothing left to suck.

None of this is Moyes' fault and I note chalks' posts about Pellers lack of interest.. Tells me all I need to know as they usually have the finger on the pulse... If this was about a lack of financial support from the board, well, it doesn't matter what manager we have, it'll be all the same won't it. :fsake:

Longaz
Posts: 1051
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:49 pm
Location: Newham

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Longaz » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:06 am

Hardly an inspiring appointment, but all we can do is give him a chance. Maybe as football fans we all think we know more than we do. Everton appointing both Ronald Koeman and Marco Silva were both seen as good appointments, both had done pretty well in the Premier League with other clubs and both were seen as young progressive managers. Both turnt out to be s***. Leicester were mocked for appointing Ranieri, I dont think any other manager in world football could have won the league with Leicester that year, Did he win it because he was the best manager in the league? Newcastle fans were fuming about Steve Bruce appointment, would they be any higher in the league if they had kept Rafa?, who 99.9% of people would say is a better manager than Bruce.

Just trying to find some positives...

User avatar
Wilko1304
Posts: 3891
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:36 pm
Location: "Once you start complicating things the end result is less inflatables"

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Wilko1304 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:20 am

crazyknight wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:03 am
False equivalencies though. Moyes' 33 in 27 came in one season, with no pre-season, having not signed a player and having to deal with three out of four star signings that weren't performing, not being allowed to sign anybody, having the board underbid for decent targets and ending up with Hugill as a panic buy because somebody at Preston told Moyes he was a nice, hard-working lad.

Pellegrini's 32 in 27 came across two seasons, both of which came with a full-preseason, spending over 100m on players (some of which signed by his hand-picked chief scout), not improving obvious key positions that needed improving, not building on what he was handed, forcing the chairman to sign his number one target at any cost as his equivalent of Van Halen's bowl of M&Ms with no brown ones in it, leaving no money to sign a central midfielder two seasons despite selling one each summer.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Pellegrini has actually done anything wrong. Pellegrini was Pellegrini, the guy who has been playing classical South American, tippy-tappy, back-to-front, playmaker/goalscorer-driven football as manager for 30 years. A guy who is a cog in a machine, who needs the vision to come from other people. He did what he's always done, which is why he was great at Villareal with Riquelme and got a tune out of Malaga with Santi Cazorla and had that first brilliant season with David Silva at Man City. We don't have those players and we don't have the technical staff at board level who can bring the vision. By appointing him, David Sullivan was trying to both hide from reality and appeal to the star-f***** community of West Ham fans who only watch West Ham and want big names. He can placate them with a Pellegrini because they have no idea of nuance either.

And we need to be honest. West Ham in the summer of 2018 were in crisis. It needed to be a five-window fix; plug up the obvious holes in the team, find obvious replacements for older members of the squad, then find players who can kick the club up a notch. That was going to take 2 1/2 to 3 years with a manager of vision who actually knows how to do that sort of thing but completely impossible with somebody like Pellegrini.
To somewhat answer back, all comparisons are false equivalencies, but you could equally argue that you're comparing the end of a managerial reign to the start, which is somewhat unfair as most managers have a worse record at the end, and shouldn't do at the start.

Moyes didn't get that money because the board do not trust or rate him. That is a problem in itself, maybe not Moyes's, but it is for this club. When he did get money, he spent it on a striker with no Premier League ability and one that benefited him. Equally, Pellegrini should have had the money for that midfielder, he sold Obiang, we hadn't spent a wild amount (net) and they still planned to sell Hernandez.

I find the last two wildly unfair, to be honest. You are basically saying he's no good, couldn't handle what we needed and has been blessed with a talismanic player rather than managerial ability. I actually think Pellegrini started doing that job, but was undermined in doing it and couldn't complete it.

Sadly what we needed was a Director of Football. We hired the manager's choice, which was dumb, and then sacked him because we didn't like Roberto. This club will continue to go nowhere with Sullivan taking charge, and especially so with him being MORE involved with footballing affairs.

User avatar
Hayden
Posts: 6825
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:48 am

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Hayden » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:35 am

I for one will give Moyes my full support.
Sullivan’s mistakes are not Moyes’ mistakes.

People are saying about ambition - how many managers would want to come here with the mess we’re in and do we really expect Sullivan to go big? Unfortunately this isn’t Football Manager so we can’t just enter a cheat code and suddenly have all the money in the world. Sullivan and Gold are running it as cheaply as they can for maximum return when they sell.

For that reason, Moyes is not the enemy, nor are the players. I don’t particularly like him, but I’m supporting him.

User avatar
Al Fisti
Posts: 942
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:17 am

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Al Fisti » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:50 am

Very bad news in my opinion. 2 steps back!

Sullivan/Gold f*** off!!!!

User avatar
Vladnar
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:32 pm

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Vladnar » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:03 am

Now moyes and pearce are back, like it or lump it, i see us staying up this year AND finishing top 12 under them next season so like it or lump it ill be happier in the long run than watching us last 2 months has made me.

V

ps, im just sick and tired of thinking relegation is a poss all the time, starting to think ill accept anything to just get away from the bottom 3.

Swiss Pauli
Posts: 4083
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:44 pm
Location: Reading

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Swiss Pauli » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:54 am

Anyone else get the feeling that Benitez told Sullivan to come back in the summer with a budget like Pelle when he signed?

An 18 month deal seems like insurance in case Benny sacks us off again, with a bigger pay off for Moyes if he doesn't.

Senior players will be key for Moyes this season. If they were happy with him last time around then we'll stay up comfortably. If one or two didn't like him then it's going to be a hard slog.

User avatar
kitthehammer
Posts: 10257
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:11 am
Location: way out west in Egham

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by kitthehammer » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:01 am

I bet the vast majority all slagging the board were the same people who thought we’d taken that step up they had suggested when pellegrini was signed and we were buying more expensive players.

Why can’t those people just admit it didn’t work and that the board had simply done what many of our fans had demanded of them?

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11845
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Aceface » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:06 am

One thing you can draw from this – Sullivan is finally having to confess he's exactly what everyone thinks he is. Limited footballing knowledge, no long-term vision or ambition for changing the club's circumstances, possessing a style of football ownership that hasn't changed with the times.

The same thought process went into this as the first one when Avram Grant was appointed all those years ago.

User avatar
BondsoBob
Posts: 3791
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:05 pm
Location: Folkestone, Kent,

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by BondsoBob » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:12 am

Graza wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:47 pm
You may want to wind your neck in.

I'm pretty sure we all noticed what happened last time he was here, that's why we are ****ing annoyed. Unless you don't actually go to the ground and eat the **** he serves and/or only care they we clung on for another go round in the money league. I don't care how much money the owners are making out of PL status. I care about what I go and watch.

If you hadn't noticed most of the preferred names bandied about in the who next thread weren't PL winners club. They were however predominantly in the not **** football list and the competent in the transfer market list.

I think you'll find proper West Ham fans are allowed to respond to a **** appointment by a **** board however they ****ing want. You can sit, eat popcorn and use your happy clapper while watching in awe at City's superstars. Proper fans can do whatever they want.

He may have fulfilled his brief 18 months ago, but he signed a 6 month contract with an option and he deserved precisely nothing from us other than a fond wave. Had the board gone again in the summer window rather than wage stripping he could even have been fondly remembered for creating a platform for us to kick on. They didn't, we haven't and we are where we are. We don't have to be happy about it.
Totally agree. Everyone is allowed an opinion. And the fact that the majority are overwhelmingly unhappy with Moyes part 2 speaks volumes.

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11845
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Aceface » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:12 am

kitthehammer wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:01 am
I bet the vast majority all slagging the board were the same people who thought we’d taken that step up they had suggested when pellegrini was signed and we were buying more expensive players.

Why can’t those people just admit it didn’t work and that the board had simply done what many of our fans had demanded of them?
True.

I'd just like to apologise to David Sullivan for getting us into this situation.

User avatar
PlaistowIron
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 4:53 pm
Location: East London...

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by PlaistowIron » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:14 am

Let’s get behind him eh? He’s here now, not much we can do but support him and the team.

I think we’ll see an improvement and sharpish.

User avatar
Puff Daddy
Gone for a Burton
Posts: 25954
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Westham Way

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Puff Daddy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:27 am

He will need to get a tune out of Haller, in a way Pel Boy never did. Well, OK, the Watford game aside, I'll concede that one, but do that and we might have a chance. Although not the most exciting appointment in the world, we have to accept where we are and what we are and because it is our club, we have higher expectations and demand appointments to meet with our own aspirations. A piece of poetry from Robert Burns puts things into perspective:- 'The gift t' gee us, to see ourselves as others see us'

WTID
Posts: 331
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:48 am

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by WTID » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:33 am

Back the manager its not Moyes thought we’re the same cycle every other year. The players aren’t good enough plain and simple we’ve paid way over the odds for players.
Haller looks like his playing in Timberlands 90% of the time.
Antonio bulldozer with no footballing brain.
Fredericks just runs up and down the right wing no end product
Creswell too slow half decent end product.
Diop/Balbuena/Oggy none of them know how to lead the back 4.
Snodders puts in a shift but doesn’t really do anything.
Rice only decent outfield player who can actually intercept a pass.
Noble too slow doesn’t boss nothing on the field.
Anderson decent touch ok at running with the ball.
The only player I actually rate is Fabianski without him we would be rock bottom right now.

denzel
Posts: 1545
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:35 pm
Location: **** GSB

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by denzel » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:38 am

bonzosbeard wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:19 am
I'm a bit suprised at the strength of feeling against him but I can understand where people are coming from reading the posts. Actually some good posts on both points of view.
And that's why it's the best West Ham site out there :thup:

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11845
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Aceface » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:41 am

PlaistowIron wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:14 am
Let’s get behind him eh?
People will. They always do. Just got to let the grizzlers – like me – get it off their chest before then.

Post Reply