David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

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e17
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by e17 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:41 am

It’s Groundhog Day at West Ham United, just with Pellegrini’s name replacing Bilic. Dull football, managed by David Moyes, with the scant consolation that we’d have lost a month ago rather than got a point.

For the second time in three years, the football has become all about Sky money and G&S keeping their premiership pot by any means possible, through no real fault of any of the managers in question, with the horrendous knock on affect of what is already often a chore of a day out for us punters, becoming even more of a procession and acceptance that at least a point isn’t no points.

Think I’m gonna knock it on the head next season.

Or become a day tripper and just go to “the big games” and appreciate the opposition teams and football.

Our bench yesterday summed it all up. David Moyes must have had his eyes opened to his hopes of “attacking football” being unlikely due to this lot yesterday.

A bench full of centre backs because that’s all we could muster.

A big wonderful working class club ruined by small unpleasant underclass people.

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e17
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by e17 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:43 am

keithwright1977 wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:36 pm
Moyes has installed a work ethic into the players that Pellegrini couldn’t and he deserves credit for it, it’s still early days but if we can get a few players in then maybe, with a bit of luck, we can move away from the relegation zone
How exciting. Where do I renew?

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Ozza » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:44 am

“Underclass” I’d describe them as classless

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by 'Appy 'Ammer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:46 am

I like Moyes. He is the root vegetable of football. We tried exotic fruits and it failed

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by simon hammer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:59 am

It seems to me that we are trying to become more solid to compensate for our slowness, especially in the middle of the park. This leads to us playing more defensively, and as a result we become prone to conceding more set pieces due to sitting deeper and making more tackles. The problem is we aren't good enough at defending set pieces, so we concede goals from them. And with Antonio and Anderson out, we don't have enough of an attacking outlet to enable us to change our style during the game. And when our attacks break down, the ball comes back up our end far too quickly.

I'm sure that Moyes and his team are working on our frailties when defending set pieces, and his cause will be helped by a couple of new signings...Randolph is already a huge improvement over both Martin and Roberto...and I think Moyes will be looking for a big, strong athletic midfielder and someone to play alongside Haller, which will strengthen us when faced with dead ball situations and allow us to defend from the front.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by OFT » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:00 am

hadleighhammer wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:12 am
Everton were so dogshit Pellegrini's West Ham would have stood a good chance of winning that let alone getting a point.

One may argue that if Pellegrini's team had beaten ,or even drawn with some of the 'Dogshit' teams he'd still be in the job.

opinions eh!

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:06 am

We played some good football in the second half of the first half. Pass. Move. On the floor. On the front foot.

Ancelotti closed it down with his subs. The lack of options was a killer for us.

Ajeti seems to be getting bonus points for running around a bit, but his first touch was consistently awful . If he is like that in training , it's easy to see why neither manager wants him on the pitch.

Correcting some of the f*** ups that have been made with the squad players in the last 18 months is a big problem.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by mumbles87 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:48 am

So far under David 2.0 there are things we have seen that some have called to be used for ages. (Even with injury MP wouldn't have used some of these ideas)

3 at the back with wing backs.. can work well ..
Masuku used as a winger .. seeing him and cresswell briefly yest openned up some possibilities .. one staying back whilst the other goes forward ..
Ajeti actually given a chance WITH Haller .. suddenly doesn't cut the figure of a player out his depth.. funny that

The main thing I haven't liked so far is the overuse of lanzini in favour of fornels who has been one of our best players recently.

His league record since taking over is W - L -D .. which considering that loss could easily have been a draw if not for this stunning new hand ball law ..

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bristolhammerfc » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:30 am

Moyes formation has always relied on quick fullbacks with a loaded midfield. Baines and Evra were both key to his tactics. Unfortunately, we have Cresswell who has the quality of neither.

At Man Utd, he used Fellani alongside Carrick, which mirrors our Rice and Noble problem. He used Rooney to link with Van Persie which was to protect the lack of creativity with a three of Januzaj, Ronney and Nani/Valencia.

Here he is trying to do the same, but doesn't have the same issue with creativity or with striking options. His solution is to use Lanzini in the Rooney role. This means that by being further forward without the work ethic of Rooney, Lanzini looks lost and ineffective.

His reliance on crosses to create rather than working the ball through the middle means he is picking squads with that ability in mind. Snodgrass, Masuaku, Zabeleta all have the ability to cross the ball, the problem is that Hallers knock downs are not being followed up on by Lanzini the way a Wayne Rooney would have done. Swap Lanzini for Antonio and it might work.

Players not so good at crossing are missing out. Fornals, Yarmolenko are being asked to play deeper when on the pitch which isn't their natural game.

It looks negative when the opposition targets our full backs and stifles that game plan. We end up with a static 4-5-1 with an isolated Haller. It looks awful and creates little. Noble end up as a third centre back as the two full backs charge forward only to get hit on the counter, Fornals comes back to support rice with Snodgrass and Lanzin ends up too far from Haller.

The squad and the tactics are still the issue.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by neathiron » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:47 am

Moyes is in a no win situation with some on here. Its as if they want him to fail so they can turn around and say "told you so". We've conceded 2 goals in his 4 games in charge. If that's not signs of improvement, I don't know what is. We've lost more games against Everton than against any other team in the Premiership yet some people are turning their nose up at a well earned point yesterday. You can argue that they were missing Richarlison but we were also missing vital players in attack ourselves. Ideally I wanted 3 points yesterday with our run of fixtures coming up, but I'm at least encouraged by the fact we're still in games coming up to the 90 minute mark so far under Moyes. Under Pellegrini, the players were on the team bus come half time!

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:57 am

Agree with a lot of that Bristol - especially that a lot of our problems come back, yet again, to full back.

Also agree that it would look more effective with Antonio rather than Lanzini. Have posted elsewhere about Lanzini - I don’t get the impression that he and Haller are on the same wavelength and they’ve both chosen different options when the other has made good runs.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:59 am

I am struggling to see why people think there has been an improvement since Moyes took over.
Pelligrini''s last six games were Chelsea A, Wolves (A), Arsenal (H), Southampton (A) Palace (A) and Leicester (H). A tough run of fixtures providing six points. Not great but not awful. All but one of those games we had an iffy keeper between the sticks. In my opinion he had begun to turn it round after a poor October and November.

Moyes had had Bournemouth H, Sheffield U A and Everton H. Two of those witH a proper keeper. We accrued four points which I don't think is a better return han what we got in those previous six Pelligrjni games. Pretty much the bare minimum you would expect and minimum Pelligrini would have got IMHO.

The Southampton and Chelsea games were by far the best performances over the last couple of months IMHO, esp Southampton Away.

We haven't improved under Moyes IMHO. Hardly had a new manager bounce like Pearson at Watford.

We would have got to 41-43 points under Pelligrini and will probably do the same with Moyes

All conjecture of course but to say Moyes has come in and noticeably really improved everything is a bit of a leap

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Westbourne Bill » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:59 am

Can anyone recall seeing TV cameras pick up pictures of Pellegrini at a game scouting future opposition? I can't. At least we saw Moyes watching Everton last week and I wouldn't be surprised if he's at Burnley today watching Leicester.

I'd disagree with him when he says this squad is stronger than last time though, so keeping us up this time will be tougher I think.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by neathiron » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:16 pm

Westbourne Bill wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:59 am
Can anyone recall seeing TV cameras pick up pictures of Pellegrini at a game scouting future opposition?
He was too busy on the golf course or at the driving range WB!

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Albie Beck » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:16 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:59 am
All conjecture of course but to say Moyes has come in and noticeably really improved everything is a bit of a leap
I'm not at all anti-Moyes, but I find myself agreeing with much of that Crouchy - and the football is a bit rougher round the edges.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by irving boleyn » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:21 pm

You'd get a different result Crouchy if you made other comparisons.

e.g The relevant successes of the two manager's first four games in charge..

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Beavis Danzig » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:21 pm

pep or klopp would rarely take in an opposition game either because they will be more focused on spending every waking moment building their team and would trust their professionally assembled squad of scouts, coaches and other assorted experts to dissect every inch of weakness every opposition player has. a pitch side view of a single game to them is an inefficient use of their most finite resource (time).

that we have no infrastructure to do that shouldn't be celebrated, and while moyes' hard work should be credited, he's clearly happy to work within the confines of how the owners want to run the club.
Last edited by Beavis Danzig on Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by keithwright1977 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:26 pm

e17 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:43 am
How exciting. Where do I renew?
Rome wasn’t built in a day, anyway have you seen our new exciting plans for the future, it’s so exciting that they’ve made the 10 year plan into a 20 year plan, can’t wait

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Vic_Watson » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:27 pm

Westbourne Bill wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:59 am
Can anyone recall seeing TV cameras pick up pictures of Pellegrini at a game scouting future opposition? I can't. At least we saw Moyes watching Everton last week and I wouldn't be surprised if he's at Burnley today watching Leicester.
A strange criticism in my opinion. Far more can be gleaned by watching video. Moyes just likes a cheap day out.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bristolhammerfc » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:28 pm

Beavis Danzig wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:21 pm
that we have no infrastructure to do that shouldn't be celebrated.
Is exactly right and exactly why Moyes was the boards go to. They knew he wouldn't complain about being told he couldn't employ who he wanted or mind that Sully would be back to Director of Football, or that Jack would be involved in transfer negotiations.

I don't blame Moyes and don't want him to fail. That means the team fails and I never want that.

I would however not be gutted at relegation should it turn out that way. For our owners they would get what they deserve.

I still think Moyes would be in charge regardless. Its a perfect match. He is their new Mcleish.

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