David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

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bubbles1966
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:51 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:59 am
I am struggling to see why people think there has been an improvement since Moyes took over.
Pelligrini''s last six games were Chelsea A, Wolves (A), Arsenal (H), Southampton (A) Palace (A) and Leicester (H). A tough run of fixtures providing six points. Not great but not awful. All but one of those games we had an iffy keeper between the sticks. In my opinion he had begun to turn it round after a poor October and November.

Moyes had had Bournemouth H, Sheffield U A and Everton H. Two of those witH a proper keeper. We accrued four points which I don't think is a better return han what we got in those previous six Pelligrjni games. Pretty much the bare minimum you would expect and minimum Pelligrini would have got IMHO.

The Southampton and Chelsea games were by far the best performances over the last couple of months IMHO, esp Southampton Away.

We haven't improved under Moyes IMHO. Hardly had a new manager bounce like Pearson at Watford.

We would have got to 41-43 points under Pelligrini and will probably do the same with Moyes

All conjecture of course but to say Moyes has come in and noticeably really improved everything is a bit of a leap
We absolutely slaughtered Bournemouth, a team that has routinely troubled us in the past.

We also saw off lower league opposition with a very professional display in a cup tie. Something we've been terrible at over the last twelve months.

I'd say the football is, at a bare minimum, no worse than the tripe Pellegrini regularly served up for most of 2019.

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szola
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by szola » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:53 pm

'Appy 'Ammer wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:46 am
I like Moyes. He is the root vegetable of football. We tried exotic fruits and it failed
Actually, no.

Our best seasons have been with Bilic and Pellegrini.
Interestingly when we're playing the West Ham Way, we get the best results.

:shock:

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bubbles1966
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:05 pm

szola wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:53 pm
Actually, no.

Our best seasons have been with Bilic and Pellegrini.
Interestingly when we're playing the West Ham Way, we get the best results.
Alternatively, when a lot of money is put the manager's way, we play our better football.

The minute it dries up and/or our single star player wants out ...

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hammer1975
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:13 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:05 pm
Alternatively, when a lot of money is put the manager's way, we play our better football.

The minute it dries up and/or our single star player wants out ...
:thup:

keithwright1977
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by keithwright1977 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:18 pm

szola wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:53 pm
Actually, no.

Our best seasons have been with Bilic and Pellegrini.
Interestingly when we're playing the West Ham Way, we get the best results.

:shock:
Some of our worst soulless uncommitted performances came under those managers too

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szola
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by szola » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:24 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:05 pm
Alternatively, when a lot of money is put the manager's way, we play our better football.
The minute it dries up and/or our single star player wants out ...
You need managers who want to play a certain way, to be able to recruit certain players.
keithwright1977 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:18 pm
Some of our worst soulless uncommitted performances came under those managers too
I've not seen WHUFC not have soulless performances under any manager.

Still, Bilic and Pellegrini are the only managers who have been able to lift us, and they did that coupled with the football played the West Ham Way.

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bubbles1966
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:27 pm

szola wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:24 pm
You need managers who want to play a certain way, to be able to recruit certain players.
Carlos Sanchez...Albian Ajeti....Roberto....

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Ferret
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Ferret » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pm

szola wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:53 pm
Actually, no.

Our best seasons have been with Bilic and Pellegrini.
Interestingly when we're playing the West Ham Way, we get the best results.

:shock:
"The West ham way", dear god.....KLAAAAAXON. :lol:

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Ironing Board
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Ironing Board » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:49 pm

The best criticism I have seen so far is that he actually makes the effort to watch the opposition in person! And the suggestion he would learn more from watching video.

For one thing he will also be watching video throughout the week to prepare. Another is you learn much more
In person as you can watch what happens off the ball, which can actually be much more important.

But some think he would be better getting the team to play “his way” and ignore the strengths and weaknesses of the opponents! Didn’t work so well for Pellers, did
It?

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bristolhammerfc » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:05 pm

keithwright1977 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:18 pm
Some of our worst soulless uncommitted performances came under those managers too
Remind me who the Manager was when we played Wigan and Shrewsbury. There are plenty of bad performances to go around

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by neathiron » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:11 pm

Ironing Board wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:49 pm
The best criticism I have seen so far is that he actually makes the effort to watch the opposition in person! And the suggestion he would learn more from watching video.

For one thing he will also be watching video throughout the week to prepare. Another is you learn much more
In person as you can watch what happens off the ball, which can actually be much more important.
Exactly, how many times have people been pulled up on here for commenting on a game from their armchair? Myself included. You see the bigger picture, when you're physically at a game, like which players are busting a gut and putting the effort in and which players are just strolling around looking disinterested. It's all about the preparation. At least Moyes is earning his coin and showing that he actually gives a f*** unlike the previous regime.

keithwright1977
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by keithwright1977 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:12 pm

The reality is that any manager that has been here in the last decade and that comes to us in the future will have to work within the constraints of what the current owners believe is acceptable. We might end up having to accept that 8 out of the next 10 years we are going to have to put up with substandard or below football with the other 2 seasons leaving us scratching our heads trying to work out why we can’t be like it all the time. Without prolonged investment in all areas of the football club we will struggle to reach any long term goals, the youth set up needs to be taken more seriously so we can churn out decent players who can play with the first team or eventually reach a stage where we can sell them on for decent profits and reinvest back into the set up. All we’re doing at the moment is producing hardly anything from the youth set up and devaluing any players we bring in for big fees

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bristolhammerfc » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:21 pm

neathiron wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:11 pm
Exactly, how many times have people been pulled up on here for commenting on a game from their armchair?
No one has been 'pulled up for that'. People might state that you see the game from a different viewpoint, but most coaches use video's of the game now. Some people do enjoy going to a football match though

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Beavis Danzig » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:31 pm

neathiron wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:11 pm
Exactly, how many times have people been pulled up on here for commenting on a game from their armchair? Myself included. You see the bigger picture, when you're physically at a game, like which players are busting a gut and putting the effort in and which players are just strolling around looking disinterested. It's all about the preparation. At least Moyes is earning his coin and showing that he actually gives a **** unlike the previous regime.
there's a bit of a difference between having situational breakdowns of any player you want to watch (on and off the ball) with extensive annotations and statistics, and sitting at home watching a buffering stream of a dubai football channel on your laptop. that's before you get into the expertise of people whose entire job is to attend games and come up this this stuff, which the likes of man city will have a whole flotilla of.

can't say how much of this pellegrini did, how many people he had doing this for him, or how hard he worked, but you won't see many of the top managers regularly zipping round the country to watch entire matches for this reason. that's not a slight on any manager who does, but that doesn't automatically make them more hard working.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by jacko » Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:58 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:51 pm
We absolutely slaughtered Bournemouth, a team that has routinely troubled us in the past.

We also saw off lower league opposition with a very professional display in a cup tie. Something we've been terrible at over the last twelve months.

I'd say the football is, at a bare minimum, no worse than the tripe Pellegrini regularly served up for most of 2019.
We beat a side sitting 14th in League one and we beat a premier league side who have won two games out of their last 17 in the league. I can't say that makes me jump for joy.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by szola » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:00 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:27 pm
Carlos Sanchez...Albian Ajeti....Roberto...
You can do much, much better, bubbles....

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by neathiron » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:11 pm

bristolhammerfc wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:21 pm
No one has been 'pulled up for that'. People might state that you see the game from a different viewpoint, but most coaches use video's of the game now. Some people do enjoy going to a football match though
I beg to differ on that bristolhammer, I'm going back to a time before you was moderating, a few have been pulled up on it for not putting in the miles in the past, after they've commented on a game watching from their laptop. From my experience it's way better when you're actually at the game, whether it's because I played lots of football when I was younger, but you can see where passes should be played more often than not. You see the bigger picture, not just what the camera is focusing on.
When Moyes was out of a job he was still travelling around going to games, because he loves watching football. He said it in his press conference when he was unveiled for the 2nd time.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Cellar-door » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:26 pm

He's been about what I expected.
Maybe a bit more aggressive with the press, but generally very cautious otherwise.
We performed about as expected in the way expected (except maybe against Bournemouth, but that club is truly falling apart last 4 matches were all against relegation rivals, 0 points, 0 scored 10 allowed) putting men behind the ball, pressing, trying to counter on mistakes.
I still feel the same way I did... we'll stay up playing unspectacular football, and then come summer the decision will have to be made... is Moyes the future to build this club or is it someone else? I have concerns. I don't think he's been a particularly good identifier of talent since he left Everton, and given we have no scouting aparatus so much of it falls on him and the board (also not particularly good identifiers of talent). Do the board give him an extension, or do they leave him a lame duck on a 1 year contract, if the latter, how much money do they want to spend on having a manager build a squad he wants knowing he's on such a short leash.

'

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Faithless » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:47 pm

Beavis Danzig wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:31 pm
there's a bit of a difference between having situational breakdowns of any player you want to watch (on and off the ball) with extensive annotations and statistics...
This is us under GSB remember... we probably still have a VHS.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by neathiron » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:50 pm

Faithless wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:47 pm
This is us under GSB remember... we probably still have a VHS.
More like a Betamax :wink:

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