David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

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Graza
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:25 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:58 pm
We seem to have reached that perverse stage where we desire a manager who doesn''t actually want to manage West Ham. The alternative is some old dope on the down turn who sees a mug contract coming where he gets paid £10m a year to phone it in.
I'd rather we had a look in league 1 or the championship and find someone younger with fresh ideas and on their way up. Yes if successful they'll do 3/4 years then move on to greener pastures, but it's better than the same old ****.

Actually scratch that the Dave's would f*** them over, ruin their rep in the press then dump them then continue to run them down using their puppets destroying their career forever. I don't wish that on any up and coming manager and they should see the trap it is and be someone who wouldn't want to be hired by us.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:28 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:21 pm
I like him. I just think that his appointment signalled (once and for all) just how little our owners understand football and how there was, in actual fact zero truth that they ever had any desire to see West Ham succeed on the football pitch.
...
Chopped for brevity.

I don't like him per say. I don't hate him, I don't think he's **** I just didn't enjoy the last run and expect this one to be the same. I agree entirely with the rest of your post though. As has been said many times on this thread, symptom not the disease.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Ironing Board » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:29 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:21 pm
I like him. I just think that his appointment signalled (once and for all) just how little our owners understand football and how there was, in actual fact zero truth that they ever had any desire to see West Ham succeed on the football pitch.

Bilic had enthusiasm. They sucked it out of him. They blew up his home, sold his best players and rented and borrowed some other ones. The guy was so broken that heliterally went bald TWICE!

I had hoped that Pellegrini would have enough strength and standing in the game to force them to support him. I thought he would get money out of them and teach them about modern football. After one decent season, they sold his best player, sold his squad and didn’t bother to replace any of it.

David Moyes could probably have gotten something out of our board to in 2010. He could have made them back him. In 2020, he can’t even get them to borrow a right-back for him when we are joint second bottom.

If Moyes really was all the things you think he is, then we would have a central midfielder by now and we would have a right back and a spare striker. We don’t and he’s already resigned himself to the fact that he won’t get any of them. Which is the exact reason why they hired the poor b*stard.
Shankly said, 'We are a team. We share the ball, we share the game, we share the worries'

While this team is lacking, even without reinforcements it should have enough to stay up above Villa, Watford, Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth.

But if people cannot resist getting on the back of the players and manager until the end of the season and give them total support then they will fail.

For their part the players need to show a lot more on the pitch, and follow the instructions from the coaching staff to the best of their ability. One thing I do know is that shirking will not be allowed under Moyes.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Turns to Stone » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:31 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:23 pm
When someone says, "He can’t be that good simply because he is manager of West ****ing Ham." they are slagging off Pellegrini, Bilic. etc as well as Moyes... so why single out Moyes?
I’m talking about us now, in this moment. I don’t think Johnny Lyall’s a **** manager because he managed West Ham. But do you think Bilic would take the job now? Would Pellegrini of taking this job 18 months ago (not the terms they’ve offered Moyes). He’s not here because he’s the best available. He’s here because he’s available.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:21 pm
If Moyes really was all the things you think he is, then we would have a central midfielder by now and we would have a right back and a spare striker. We don’t and he’s already resigned himself to the fact that he won’t get any of them. Which is the exact reason why they hired the poor b*stard.
How did Bilic and Pellegrini get on with right backs, central midfielders and prising open the owners wallets?

Your criticism seems misdirected and it plays into what the owners want us to do.

Moyes is the decoy - the covering fire.

He's also on a million for a few months work , possibly £2m+ to finish 17th - and none of this is his fault. It's daft to criticise him for taking a fabulously well paid job; it's the owners you should direct your criticism at if you think he's the wrong person.

If someone offered me, you or almost everybody else on here a million minimum for five months' work tomorrow, how many would you expect to turn it down?

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Hammer1972 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:36 pm

f*** me, I’d hate to see Haller when he was shirking then..

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:38 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:31 pm
He’s not here because he’s the best available. He’s here because he’s available.
That's not his fault though, is it? It's the owners' way of doing business.

You're misdirecting your criticism.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Turns to Stone » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:38 pm

Ironing Board wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:29 pm
Shankly said, 'We are a team. We share the ball, we share the game, we share the worries'

While this team is lacking, even without reinforcements it should have enough to stay up above Villa, Watford, Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth.

But if people cannot resist getting on the back of the players and manager until the end of the season and give them total support then they will fail.

For their part the players need to show a lot more on the pitch, and follow the instructions from the coaching staff to the best of their ability. One thing I do know is that shirking will not be allowed under Moyes.
What does that have to do with support? Were you giving Pellegrini and the players total support for the last 6 months? Maybe you weren’t. Maybe you were. I don’t actually go to games anymore as I won’t go to the OS, so I’ve only seen us twice this year. If I do go, I will cheer the players on as I was always have.

That doesn’t mean that I don’t think that Moyes hiring is an indication of the contempt that the board have for the club. Nor will i change my stance that by hiring Moyes at the lowest point in his career sends a terrible message to the players and the fans. The problem I have is that I cannot see a way out of the vicious cycle that the board have us in, with appointing manager after manager, never fully backing them and never moving forward. Yet, deep down I love West Ham. I cannot be ambivalent to their results, I cannot be ambivalent to the appalling effort our players have put in this season, I can’t contemplate relegation without sadness.

Yet here we are, 2nd bottom in January, 4 impossible fixtures ahead, no signings on the way and a manager who’s standing in the game is such that were he to hand his notice in on the 2nd February due to lack of transfers, no other club would give him a job anyway. Moyes has no cards to play. And neither do we.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Burnley Hammer » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:39 pm

With Fredericks, Anderson, and Antonio back, we'll be a far better team. All we lack is that one quality box to box midfield player. If we get just that then we have a chance... providing they can all actually stay fit until the season ends.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Turns to Stone » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:40 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:38 pm
That's not his fault though, is it? It's the owners' way of doing business.

You're misdirecting your criticism.
Im directing it in both ways. The board have made a poor appointment and he is a poor appointment. My criticism is aimed at both. The owners for turning us into such an unpalatable option for managers and Moyes for being in a position in his career when that option is the only one available to him.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Turns to Stone » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:45 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm

He's also on a million for a few months work , possibly £2m+ to finish 17th - and none of this is his fault. It's daft to criticise him for taking a fabulously well paid job; it's the owners you should direct your criticism at if you think he's the wrong person.

Mate, have you read my posts. All I do is criticise the owners. I’m boring myself, here.

Moyes is a symptom of their mismanagement. I wish him well. I want him to achieve. But his appointment is similar to loaning Zaza or buying Feghouli. It’s fine, but it’s not good enough. And it isn’t going to convince our best players to stay, or to try harder, or to entice new players to want to join us. Moyes hiring tells us all what we all already knew/feared. We are a lower to mid-table Premier League side at best, and the owners have no intention of changing that. Moyes isn’t the problem. He’s merely a symbol.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:46 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:40 pm
Im directing it in both ways. The board have made a poor appointment and he is a poor appointment. My criticism is aimed at both. The owners for turning us into such an unpalatable option for managers and Moyes for being in a position in his career when that option is the only one available to him.
Talk me through this

West Ham are the 18th highest income club in the world. There are hundreds and thousands of worse options - but only 17 better ones.

So, what makes it a crap job?

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Faithless » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:55 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:39 pm
With Fredericks, Anderson, and Antonio back, we'll be a far better team. All we lack is that one quality box to box midfield player. If we get just that then we have a chance... providing they can all actually stay fit until the season ends.
There's the worry...

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Turns to Stone » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:56 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:46 pm
Talk me through this

West Ham are the 18th highest income club in the world. There are hundreds and thousands of worse options - but only 17 better ones.

So, what makes it a crap job?
I’ll give you a clue, one of them is 4’ 6 and the other one is married to Paul Peschisolido.

It’s a crap job because you are completely hamstrung by our ownership. Any success you have will immediately disappear. How many false dawns have we had only for it not to be backed up.

You made the excellent pot earlier that anyone of Allardyce, Bilic, Pellegrini or Moyes would have us happily tucked into 8th - 12th right now If only they had been given the necessary tools to do so. They’re the manager, let them manager. But ‘no’. If a player not in the first team gets an offer, they’re going, and we might not replace them. And if one of your best players wants to go, well we’re just going to flog them. No fight, just gone. And we might not replace them either. And you can’t spend money on full-backs or midfielders. And we’re going to slag you off from time-to-time in the press. Oh and we made the fans a load of empty promises about challenging for Europe.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Faithless » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:06 am

Turns to Stone wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:56 pm
Oh and we made the fans a load of empty promises about challenging for Europe.
Woah there! They be hopeful promises I'll have you know!

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Douthy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:53 am

If we go down it will be because of Pellegrini, and in spite of Moyes.

Problem is most fans want it the other way round because Pell apparently played better football.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Turns to Stone » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:02 am

Douthy wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:53 am
If we go down it will be because of Pellegrini, and in spite of Moyes.

Problem is most fans want it the other way round because Pell apparently played better football.
As Bubbs and many others have pointed out, if we do get relegated this year it will be down to the owners. No more, no less.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Cellar-door » Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:36 am

Douthy wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:53 am
If we go down it will be because of Pellegrini, and in spite of Moyes.

Problem is most fans want it the other way round because Pell apparently played better football.
If we go down it will be because of the owners, the players and both managers. The owners are responsible for the state of the squad more than any, the players will have underperformed, and both managers will have failed.

Pellegrini left at 19 points in 19 played, a point out of relegation. Moyes is at 4 in 4, there is no indication at all that if we go down it is in spite of Moyes, he hasn't provided any increase in points per game played over Pelle. If we pick up the pace significantly and still go down.... sure maybe you could say that, but if we continue to be **** under Moyes it is hardly in spite of him that we would go down, he would just be a contributor, perhaps not the most culpable, but no indication it's in spite of him at all.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Ozza » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:45 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:29 pm
Shankly said, 'We are a team. We share the ball, we share the game, we share the worries'

While this team is lacking, even without reinforcements it should have enough to stay up above Villa, Watford, Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth.

But if people cannot resist getting on the back of the players and manager until the end of the season and give them total support then they will fail.

For their part the players need to show a lot more on the pitch, and follow the instructions from the coaching staff to the best of their ability. One thing I do know is that shirking will not be allowed under Moyes.
Behave the state of this club and the reason for us going down isn’t the support base

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by prophet:marginal » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:28 am

Douthy wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:53 am
If we go down it will be because of Pellegrini, and in spite of Moyes.

Problem is most fans want it the other way round because Pell apparently played better football.
Can you really say it would be only Pellegrini's fault, if we go down having sacked him halfway through the season?

The team beat Chelsea away; they aren't a squad of 24 complete novices.

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