David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

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Depressed Hammer
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Depressed Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:52 am

A manager needs to come in. Say this is the system we are going to play then look for players to fit that system. We get managers in who have to play " their" system with the players we have. Not Happening " Obviously "
Klopp took 3 seasons to build the squad he wanted. Nuno at Wolves , same. Board backed them. Even Sheff utd have the right players to fit the managers system of play.
We have a team of players that do not fit any system because its so unbalanced because the board are so clueless. Haller lone striker with 2 wingers under Pellegrini, combined with a slow midfield? Pleaseeeeeeeeee
Unless we back a manager 100% and get him the players in all positions more or less it will be like this every season we stay in Premier League.
We will always have weakness in key areas which allows team to run over us
Last edited by Depressed Hammer on Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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student_hammer
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by student_hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:55 am

Just don’t understand the Moyes sympathisers at all. Any excuse not to criticise him.

Honest Questions, for those that see him as the football management messiah:

1. What do you like about his style of play
2. Why do you think he is most likely to keep us up
3. Why is he the best man for the job
4. Of the four premier league games he’s overseen on his return what has been the most encouraging aspect

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BondsoBob
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by BondsoBob » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:01 am

Uninspiring, unambitious, underwhelming appointment that just smacks of desperation. Which is going to backfire spectacularly. Headbanger

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Mega Ron
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Mega Ron » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:08 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:29 pm
Shankly said, 'We are a team. We share the ball, we share the game, we share the worries'

While this team is lacking, even without reinforcements it should have enough to stay up above Villa, Watford, Norwich, Brighton and Bournemouth.

But if people cannot resist getting on the back of the players and manager until the end of the season and give them total support then they will fail.

For their part the players need to show a lot more on the pitch, and follow the instructions from the coaching staff to the best of their ability. One thing I do know is that shirking will not be allowed under Moyes.
What a load of rubbish.

The fans, yet again, are to be blamed for the shortcomings of the club are they?

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S-H
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by S-H » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:10 am

IB just DM'd me his answers, he's in A&E with a wrist injury.
student_hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:55 am
Just don’t understand the Moyes sympathisers at all. Any excuse not to criticise him.

Honest Questions, for those that see him as the football management messiah:

1. What do you like about his style of play He is so sexy, so handsome, so dreamy.. I love him... sorry what was the question?
2. Why do you think he is most likely to keep us up Because he keeps me up :wink:
3. Why is he the best man for the job Apart from those greying, ginger pubes.. mmmm mmm! he gave Rooney his debut
4. Of the four premier league games he’s overseen on his return what has been the most encouraging aspect Saving a fortune on Viagra

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by hadleighhammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:32 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:35 pm
Moyes is the decoy - the covering fire.
You do realise it is possible to think the owners are leeching parasites and the key consistent in the **** state we are in, but also to think Moyes is a boring, negative, out-of-date, board lapdog, **** manager?

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Burnley Hammer
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Burnley Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:44 am

He doesn't play the most exciting brand of football at the moment, but I don't think he's out of date. He's just attempting to save a an under-performing club from relegation. He doesn't have a lot to work with at the moment. Just because a manager has been around for a long time, it doesn't mean that he's out of date or a has-been. Alternatively, just because a manager is younger and flavour of the month, it doesn't suddenly make him a tactical genius. See Howe and Silva for examples.

It's pretty hard to judge due to the circumstances we've been in both times he's been here. To judge him properly, I'd need to see how he did with a summer transfer window and pre-season under his belt, and a whole season that wasn't just about beating relegation.

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S-H
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by S-H » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:48 am

Burnley Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:44 am

It's pretty hard to judge due to the circumstances we've been in both times he's been here. To judge him properly, I'd need to see how he did with a summer transfer window and pre-season under his belt, and a whole season that wasn't just about beating relegation.
Thing is though Bur, it might be unfair to judge him even after the summer, we are most likely going down, therefore he will probably have to oversee a huge complete squad overhaul.

As much as I don't rate him, that will be tough for any manager.

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bubbles1966
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:55 am

hadleighhammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:32 am
You do realise it is possible to think the owners are leeching parasites and the key consistent in the **** state we are in, but also to think Moyes is a boring, negative, out-of-date, board lapdog, **** manager?
So, why criticise Moyes for taking the job?

The argument being presented last night was "west ham are the only job he could get - how **** must he be?"

Owners aside, what is **** about a job that will pay £1m-£3m in six months, at the club with the 7th highest income in England, 18th in the world?

The players are certainly not performing worse than were under Brother Belcher for most of 2019 and the one thing we know for certain about the piss poor recruitment and contractual decisions over the last 18 months is that they weren't Moyes' doing.

It was said at the time of his appointment that people are going to just dig,dig and dig again at the bloke. The failure of the ownership to get players in to try to repair the mess of the last 18 months, and most specifically the last twelve, looks like them hanging him out to dry.

That minimises the fire aimed at them, and the inadequate players are still here - blagging it through a series of managers.

peter49uk
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by peter49uk » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:11 am

Do you think its a cunning plan come end of season when WHU get relegated he turns round to SGB and says there you go enjoy Bye Bye

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Graza
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:21 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:55 am
So, why criticise Moyes for taking the job?

The argument being presented last night was "west ham are the only job he could get - how **** must he be?"

Owners aside, what is **** about a job that will pay £1m-£3m in six months, at the club with the 7th highest income in England, 18th in the world?
I think the issue is that we know the club is knackered.

We know the board are toxic, they won't back the manager in the transfer market, as soon as results aren't what they want they'll drop feed poison about the manager to the press, they simply aren't to be trusted. Managers (good ones and even bang average ones) know this. They know they wouldn't get more than 2 years so they have to go short term to hit short term goals before they are undermined with an underinvested team get the boot. They know that their reputation will take a bit because of all of the above. Moyes actually came out with credit last time because he came in, did a job and left after his 6 month contract.

We have the 7th highest income in the country and the 18th in the world but you look at our facilities, training ground, youth setup, scout network, stadium, squad etc and you'd never know it.

I don't even think the argument was that he must be **** if this is the only job he could get, it's that the job is toxic and only a desperate man would grasp that poison chalice.

If Moyes keeps us up in spite of the owners he won't get the money to fix the squad in the summer, so he'll have to play **** football again next year and the paying public won't stand for it. The board will distance themselves from him and shaft him in the press then let him go at the end of the season. That's best case scenario for him. Best. ****ing. Case. Any player he develops or signs who does well Sullivan will seek to take credit for, anyone who does anything less will be used in that poison campaign against him.

The money is an upside but career wise this is a dead end move for Moyes (the only way it wouldn't have been would have been if he'd had cast iron contracts about the money he would be allowed to spend and zero interference from the board) or any manager. That is all at the feet of the board.

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bubbles1966
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:21 am

peter49uk wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:11 am
Do you think its a cunning plan come end of season when WHU get relegated he turns round to SGB and says there you go enjoy Bye Bye
Not really. I believe the bloke genuinely wants to do well here. He wants to get back to where he was whilst at Everton - both in terms of team performance, and the regard that he enjoyed within the game.

His move to Man U was a bit like Hodgson's to Liverpool. It became obvious very quickly that he wasn't what the supporters wanted and that he walked in at a time when they were limiting spending and very quickly fell out of favour.

If we go down - and I now think we will unless players are changed - they will sack him off and bring in another new face that they think will appease the support - and very probably someone on much lower wages and with a much lower pedigree, possibly someone who has never managed in the PL. A pound shop Klopp or a budget Pardew.

They will end up selling just about every player we have from abroad and the sellable British ones as well. They will use the money to feather bed the first year down and 'clear the debt'.

The risk for the ownership is that we don't come straight back up.

I think much of their vaunted wealth is actually WHUFC as a Premier league club. There are owners down there who can buy and sell our pair.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by pezza20 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:27 am

student_hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:55 am
Just don’t understand the Moyes sympathisers at all. Any excuse not to criticise him.

Honest Questions, for those that see him as the football management messiah:

1. What do you like about his style of play
2. Why do you think he is most likely to keep us up
3. Why is he the best man for the job
4. Of the four premier league games he’s overseen on his return what has been the most encouraging aspect
My answer to all those questions would be wait for 2 years and see.

Moyes to give him his due told the dildos laat time around what needed changing so assuming he has that agreement this time around he can start making those changes.

You could have Klopp here now and he would struggle to get a rune out of this mob.

We need ro overhaul the midfield with quick energetic players. Noble is not good enough anymore neither is Snods.

Replace them with 2 box to box midfielders and add in a Payet or 2 with a decent right back we would be in business

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funky chicken
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by funky chicken » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:34 am

Is Moyes the kind of manager to demand new signings? He was happy to sit 2-3 summer windows at Everton not making any signings didn't he, if I am not mistaken?

I do get the impression he is one those managers he rightfully, or wrongfully likes to equally work with and try to improve players he already has the club. That's probably the one thing Moyes and Pellers have in common as Pellers of course was given money to spend, particularly for his first season. But seemed happy to not demand we needed more players in certain positions as he wanted to work with players he has at his disposable.

Moyes really needs to put his foot down and demand at worse 2 new signings this window. He has nothing to lose. As IMO we will absolutely go down if we don't. And if the owners don't play ball the fans will rightfully target the owners anyway for not doing enough to try and keep us up.
Last edited by funky chicken on Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:38 am

Graza wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:21 am
I think the issue is that we know the club is knackered....(snipped for brevity) That is all at the feet of the board.
I agree with basically everything you've just posted with the sole caveat that "He can’t be that good simply because he is manager of West ****ing Ham." was posted the other night and that's the bit I have been questioning most.

It ought to be a good job for a manager and I imagine that even now, even with these owners, even with the continued discontent - that most prospective managers would still look at West Ham as a preferential job to Palace, Watford, Norwich, Burnley etc.

It's still handsomely paid, it's still a "big" club, it's still obvious what it could be if the stars align and good decisions are made.

The scale of the ownership's failure can be measured by the fact that prospective employees would probably look at the club as a step backwards from Leicester, Wolves - maybe even Sheffield United.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am

pezza20 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:27 am
My answer to all those questions would be wait for 2 years and see.

Moyes to give him his due told the dildos laat time around what needed changing so assuming he has that agreement this time around he can start making those changes.

You could have Klopp here now and he would struggle to get a rune out of this mob.

We need ro overhaul the midfield with quick energetic players. Noble is not good enough anymore neither is Snods.

Replace them with 2 box to box midfielders and add in a Payet or 2 with a decent right back we would be in business
The state of the current squad is a real issue.

None of the expensive Pellegrini recruits are performing to the level that they should. Haller, Anderson, Fornals, Diop, Yarmolenko - have had mediocre seasons at best with odd flit into form.

The recruitment and retention of Zabaleta, Roberto, Noble, Wilshere and Sanchez looked mostly wrong at the time, and so it's mostly proven to be.

Antonio, Reid and Lanzini are either badly injured, poorly recovered or regularly injured. Wilshere gets another name check here, as does Yarmolenko - and even Fabianski.

Young players who were supposed to be a step up - Johnson, Cardozo, Silva, Diangana, Holland - have not played any meaningful part,

It's been a complete cock up.

irving boleyn
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by irving boleyn » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:59 am

Are Moyes' critics saying that it would have been possible that a more competent manager would have made a significant improvement to this shaky squad without spending any money after 5 games ?

Daft,I call it.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Billy Hunt » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:07 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am
The state of the current squad is a real issue.

None of the expensive Pellegrini recruits are performing to the level that they should. Haller, Anderson, Fornals, Diop, Yarmolenko - have had mediocre seasons at best with odd flit into form.

The recruitment and retention of Zabaleta, Roberto, Noble, Wilshere and Sanchez looked mostly wrong at the time, and so it's mostly proven to be.

Antonio, Reid and Lanzini are either badly injured, poorly recovered or regularly injured. Wilshere gets another name check here, as does Yarmolenko - and even Fabianski.

Young players who were supposed to be a step up - Johnson, Cardozo, Silva, Diangana, Holland - have not played any meaningful part,

It's been a complete cock up.
Good post this, decent summary.

I'd add Balbuena to your second batch and Fredericks to the regularly injured list, which makes it that bit worse...

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Brown Sauce » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:18 am

irving boleyn wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:59 am
Are Moyes' critics saying that it would have been possible that a more competent manager would have made a significant improvement to this shaky squad without spending any money after 5 games ?

Daft,I call it.
That’s exactly what they are saying & it’s true. Last three games we’ve set up not to lose & taken 1 point. Leicester in particular he got it very wrong.
So yes I’m saying a different coach could/would get different results.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by uptonparkhurst » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:39 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am
The state of the current squad is a real issue.

None of the expensive Pellegrini recruits are performing to the level that they should. Haller, Anderson, Fornals, Diop, Yarmolenko - have had mediocre seasons at best with odd flit into form.

The recruitment and retention of Zabaleta, Roberto, Noble, Wilshere and Sanchez looked mostly wrong at the time, and so it's mostly proven to be.

Antonio, Reid and Lanzini are either badly injured, poorly recovered or regularly injured. Wilshere gets another name check here, as does Yarmolenko - and even Fabianski.

Young players who were supposed to be a step up - Johnson, Cardozo, Silva, Diangana, Holland - have not played any meaningful part,

It's been a complete cock up.
Excellent summary :thup:

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