David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

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Crouchend_Hammer
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:05 am

The question is, why replace Pelligrini with Moyes?

The former is a significantly better manager and has more chance of keeping us up, IMHO of course

We had a very iffy spell in November when we had a rubbish keeper making everyone nervous, but from Chelsea game we picked up a bit of form. Stick a half decent keeper back in and Pelligrini would have done just as well as Moyes in the last couple of games

He is also more likely to get some results in the away games we have coming up

If people are making excuses for Moyes by saying our midfield is hopeless, then surely those excuses apply to Pelligrini as well.

Now we have a manager who thinks the best way of staying up is playing for draws. It isn't going to work

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Puff Daddy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:09 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am
The state of the current squad is a real issue.

None of the expensive Pellegrini recruits are performing to the level that they should. Haller, Anderson, Fornals, Diop, Yarmolenko - have had mediocre seasons at best with odd flit into form.

The recruitment and retention of Zabaleta, Roberto, Noble, Wilshere and Sanchez looked mostly wrong at the time, and so it's mostly proven to be.

Antonio, Reid and Lanzini are either badly injured, poorly recovered or regularly injured. Wilshere gets another name check here, as does Yarmolenko - and even Fabianski.

Young players who were supposed to be a step up - Johnson, Cardozo, Silva, Diangana, Holland - have not played any meaningful part,

It's been a complete cock up.

I had forgotten all about that Silva bloke. Where is he now ? Is he still recovering from injury he sustained almost 2 years ago ?

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:05 am
The question is, why replace Pelligrini with Moyes?

The former is a significantly better manager and has more chance of keeping us up, IMHO of course
You may feel that pellegrini was more suited to the situation, and you may feel that pellegrini has a better CV - but it just wasn't happening with him, was it?

He's gone; he deserved to go; he made a pig's ear of it. Bearing in mind the total spend on new players, on a £4£ basis, he's probably the worst manager the club has ever had.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:32 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:47 am
The state of the current squad is a real issue.

The recruitment and retention of Zabaleta, Roberto, Noble, Wilshere and Sanchez looked mostly wrong at the time, and so it's mostly proven to be.
Zab had s really good first season, even now he puts himself about and is the sort of character we probably need in the club. Should he be starting when players know they can kick the ball into the space behind him and run past him? No. Should we have replaced him this summer? Yes. But to put him into a bracket with Sanchez and Roberto feels wrong to me.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Morocco Mole » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:34 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am
You may feel that pellegrini was more suited to the situation, and you may feel that pellegrini has a better CV - but it just wasn't happening with him, was it?

He's gone; he deserved to go; he made a pig's ear of it. Bearing in mind the total spend on new players, on a £4£ basis, he's probably the worst manager the club has ever had.
The bloke was a fraud. :thup:

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Puff Daddy » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:34 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am
You may feel that pellegrini was more suited to the situation, and you may feel that pellegrini has a better CV - but it just wasn't happening with him, was it?

He's gone; he deserved to go; he made a pig's ear of it. Bearing in mind the total spend on new players, on a £4£ basis, he's probably the worst manager the club has ever had.



That's what I think too. Question is. Was he worse than Grant ? To me, he was, Grant, for all his faults, did have us playing some decent football at times and managed us at our worse nadir, when we were totally skint and completely up the shitter and I don't remember a time under his stewardship, when he played cowardly football at home with just 1 up top and a 50 yard gap between the striker and the nearest midfield player. A case could also be made that Grant's team was player for player, better than Pellegrini's, was assembled at a fraction of the cost and you could at least understand what he said.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by irving boleyn » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:36 am

Brown Sauce wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:18 am
That’s exactly what they are saying & it’s true. Last three games we’ve set up not to lose & taken 1 point. Leicester in particular he got it very wrong.
So yes I’m saying a different coach could/would get different results.
I feel that's just conjecture. The limited amount of tinkering that is possible with this squad would not have countered the gulf between the two teams.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:36 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am
He's gone; he deserved to go; he made a pig's ear of it. Bearing in mind the total spend on new players, on a £4£ basis, he's probably the worst manager the club has ever had.
He was done, I think the summer budget broke him and he stopped caring at that point. But was he worse than Roeder? Than Grant? Than Macari? Not for me. Sure he spent more than all of them combined, but that's the way football has gone rather than him being handed bucket loads of resources. You also have to account for the dreadful position the squad was in after 8 years of minimum investment.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by wormley » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:42 am

We're going to become Burnley mkII under Moyes, PL survival on a minimal spend.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by irving boleyn » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:46 am

But Graza I cant see any way he improved us in 18 months,

Inexcusable that his two big buys looked quality at first but he has failed to get the best from them.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Burnley Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:46 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am
You may feel that pellegrini was more suited to the situation, and you may feel that pellegrini has a better CV - but it just wasn't happening with him, was it?

He's gone; he deserved to go; he made a pig's ear of it. Bearing in mind the total spend on new players, on a £4£ basis, he's probably the worst manager the club has ever had.
The other day, I started working out the loss percentage of our previous managers rather than the usual win percentage. I went back to the beginning of G&S's reign but couldn't find a manager with a stat as bad as Pellegrinis (calculated from figures on wikipedia) - and that includes Zola and Avram Grant.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:51 am

bubbles1966 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:16 am
You may feel that pellegrini was more suited to the situation, and you may feel that pellegrini has a better CV - but it just wasn't happening with him, was it?

He's gone; he deserved to go; he made a pig's ear of it. Bearing in mind the total spend on new players, on a £4£ basis, he's probably the worst manager the club has ever had.
It may not have been happening for him, but it isn't exactly happening for Moyes either is it! Moyes doesn't even have the excuse of having a amateur goalkeeper

At least we tried to win games under Pelligrini, even if it didn't come off. We didn't start games with the intention of protecting a point

The level of spend he has had has to be looked at in the context in the spend of everyone else, which is continuing to rise rapidly

It is not so much getting rid of Pelle [as i appreciate he had zoned out] but why replace with someone as pony as Moyes?

*obviously i know the answer in the sense the owners just wanted a cheap lap-dog they can bully around*

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by BondsoBob » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:56 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:51 am
It may not have been happening for him, but it isn't exactly happening for Moyes either is it! Moyes doesn't even have the excuse of having a amateur goalkeeper

At least we tried to win games under Pelligrini, even if it didn't come off. We didn't start games with the intention of protecting a point

The level of spend he has had has to be looked at in the context in the spend of everyone else, which is continuing to rise rapidly

It is not so much getting rid of Pelle [as i appreciate he had zoned out] but why replace with someone as pony as Moyes?

*obviously i know the answer in the sense the owners just wanted a cheap lap-dog they can bully around*

Excellent post Crouchy. Says it all. :thup:

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by S-H » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:57 am

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:51 am
It may not have been happening for him, but it isn't exactly happening for Moyes either is it! Moyes doesn't even have the excuse of having a amateur goalkeeper

At least we tried to win games under Pelligrini, even if it didn't come off. We didn't start games with the intention of protecting a point

The level of spend he has had has to be looked at in the context in the spend of everyone else, which is continuing to rise rapidly

It is not so much getting rid of Pelle [as i appreciate he had zoned out] but why replace with someone as pony as Moyes?

*obviously i know the answer in the sense the owners just wanted a cheap lap-dog they can bully around*
:thup:

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:04 pm

Burnley Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:46 am
The other day, I started working out the loss percentage of our previous managers rather than the usual win percentage. I went back to the beginning of G&S's reign but couldn't find a manager with a stat as bad as Pellegrinis (calculated from figures on wikipedia) - and that includes Zola and Avram Grant.
Three wins and three losses is better than 1 win and 5 draws

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Burnley Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:09 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:04 pm
Three wins and three losses is better than 1 win and 5 draws
Yeah, shame he wasn't doing that.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by wivenhoetim » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:14 pm

pezza20 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:27 am
My answer to all those questions would be wait for 2 years and see.

Moyes to give him his due told the dildos laat time around what needed changing so assuming he has that agreement this time around he can start making those changes.

You could have Klopp here now and he would struggle to get a rune out of this mob.

We need ro overhaul the midfield with quick energetic players. Noble is not good enough anymore neither is Snods.

Replace them with 2 box to box midfielders and add in a Payet or 2 with a decent right back we would be in business
But Pezza, why does he not make it clear thats what we need, to the owners before he signed up again, and to the media, that would at least appease us fans to a degree (well those that think he hasnt got a clue)
I genuinely harbour a hope that late action this window will show we have a plan and that so does Moyes... If we dont get two or three in, then the plan was clearly to preperare for relegation surely?

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:15 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:51 am
The level of spend he has had has to be looked at in the context in the spend of everyone else, which is continuing to rise rapidly
Nah...it needs to be considered in the context of how good/bad they've been and where we are.

Bloke failed, big style.

£4£ - the worst manager we have ever had.

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by BondsoBob » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:20 pm

Whatever the merits, or otherwise of Pellegrini and Moyes, the prize for worst West Ham manager ever must surely go to Glen Roeder.
The squad he had should have been top 6, not getting relegated. :x

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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:20 pm

Using the rationale that Pelligrini has spent more than others doesn't tell the whole picture

Manager A spends 100m but all other teams spend 50m. He comes 7th

Manager B spends 200m but all other teams spend 250m. He comes 10th

Clearly Manager B is doing better despite spending more

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