Sir_Trevor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:19 pm
Just clicked on the "Don't blame the manager" thread because I think that it really gets to the heart of the problem, only to see it had been locked.
I clicked on it because I had just been thinking to myself that, while I'm not a huge fan of Moyes, I think that it would be wrong to focus blame on him for today's defeat or indeed our current crisis state as it is clear that the cycle keeps repeating under manager after manager - going out of the cups ignominiously against lower league opposition has become routine for us.
Therefore, it is obvious whose fault it is and it is not any individual manager and no individual manager will ever be able to do any better while the current crooks are at the helm.
Surely, the whole point of that thread is not to discuss Moyes, as this one is, but to point out that it does not matter who the manager is, they will always fail with the current owners' mismanagement and total lack of any plan or any care for the club.
I can't see why it was locked as it seems to be almost the polar opposite of a thread specifically about the current manager.
There is a thread about the board, many in fact.
The manager thread is to talk about the manager's performance. The manager can perform very very poorly within the confines of the board and players being poor.
If you want to talk about the board, go bump up a thread on the board, if you want to discuss the manager this is the thread.
When someone criticizes the manager, it does not mean that they think everything is the manager's fault, it is a discussion of how the manager is doing within that paradigm.
For example... our squad is incredibly thin, we have no midfielders, our youth are mostly so bad or far away that they are not options. This is the board's fault.
On the other hand..... Moyes still did a poor job using what he has. He left Lanzini out for 90 wasted minutes again. He started a lineup and tactics that were so poor that for the second straight match he had to completely change the formation and make multiple subs at the half..... the owners may be a bigger problem than the manager, but in the manager thread we should discuss what the manager is doing well or poorly within the confines of working for a bad board.
bristolhammerfc wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:48 pm
We needed four players this window.
We needed a Manager who would ask for that at least before he took the job. That's the time to play your hand.
I posted in the Transfer thread that Moyes & Sullivan should have had 6/8 players ready to come in on January 1st. Moyes has said it himself, the problems we have now are the same as the last time he was here. Why isn't he more prepared? He has been manager for nearly a month now and we are no better than under Pellegrini. Even a dead cat bounces.
Beavis Danzig wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:26 pm
sir trev, i think that moyes is particually distateful board patsy who came crawling back after being unceremoniously binned off, polishing them off by calling them classy, allowing them to reject his assistant because he hurt their feelings, telling the support they should be careful what they wish for and being a lapdog in the market means that he's going to be caught up in the shrapnell.
that's on top of being a rank awful manager and thoroughly demotivating human being.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, I just think that a thread discussing the fact that pretty much any manager will fail with these snake oil salesmen in charge would be useful.
bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:47 pm
Who will be his Arnie this time?
He's banked on Lanzini since Anderson got injured.
I actually think that’s as close to a pop at the chairmen as we are going to get from him. He has said that this was his best team and we failed against Championship reserves. To me he was making the excuse that he doesn’t have the players to compete.
I still however think that the team he sent out there today could and should have done a lot better and that lies with him. As my old man used to say “a bad tradesman always blames his tools”
Sir_Trevor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:29 pm
I just think that a thread discussing the fact that pretty much any manager will fail with these snake oil salesmen in charge would be useful.
S-H wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:27 pm
I dont think anyone is losing sight of the root cause, mate,and I don't think they ever will.
But somehow we are even worse now than we were
Come the end of Pellegrini's reign.
Moyes deserves the stick he is getting, because we have gone backwards, which is quite simply, unfathomable, considering just how bad we were.
This! Just this!
I’ll admit I can’t stand the bloke and can’t understand how he’s got another crack at any top level management role (no other club in the top flight would appoint him). However, even I expected more than this! I expected his shithouse style of football to at least make us difficult to beat.
He’s actually made us softer. Now that’s actually impressive!
Crouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:14 pm
This is my new favourite Moysiam
It actually makes me laugh out loud
“I think we had a lot of opportunities to have an attempt on target so sometimes you can take that stat slightly differently. We were in good positions to make it happen and we didn’t, but they were better"
'So David, West Ham lost today, why was that?'
'Well, ya know, we had an opportunity to win this game. Before it started it was anybodies game, then the whistle went to start the game and it didn't quite happen after that, but the opportunity to do so prior to that opening whistle was definitely there.'
Liam wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:36 pm
This! Just this!
I’ll admit I can’t stand the bloke and can’t understand how he’s got another crack at any top level management role (no other club in the top flight would appoint him). However, even I expected more than this! I expected his shithouse style of football to at least make us difficult to beat.
He’s actually made us softer. Now that’s actually impressive!
Only somebody who has not the first idea how to run a football club would've made this appointment
I thought, and still think that;
(1) he should have been kept on last time, BUT
(2) shouldn't have been re-appointed.
I too can't believe how poor we've looked this past week. The one thing I did expect was more energy and purpose but after the initial couple of games it's not happening.
I wonder if the biggest shock and realisation has been to Moyes himself.
Every time we play poorly we blame the manager first time Moyes was here no one wanted him, when Bilic was here we moaned when we hit bad form and no one moaned when Pellegrini came in and no one moaned when we sacked him.
There is one common denominator and that’s the owners I mean if it was true that Roberto was on 30k a week that tells you all you need to know. I think players know that West Ham pay over the odds on wages and come here for an easy pay check and I think the mentality of the performances on the pitch show this.
But genuinely I know people love going to games but all the time you go and watch your supporting Gold and Sullivan even though you say your not you are as they use you as pawns in there games. We have to vote with our feet we need to be outside the ground protesting as the match is going on inside. We need to stop thinking about the players on the field and think more about the club as a whole and no manager will ever turn this side around as it’s not good enough and sadly some of the spine has seen better days.
But please start voting with your feet’s the press will notice empty stadiums and so will the owners. We need these ****ers out our club.
jastons wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:27 pm
I posted in the Transfer thread that Moyes & Sullivan should have had 6/8 players ready to come in on January 1st. Moyes has said it himself, the problems we have now are the same as the last time he was here. Why isn't he more prepared? He has been manager for nearly a month now and we are no better than under Pellegrini. Even a dead cat bounces.
He has been out of football since we got rid of him. Surely he should have a catalogue of players he has identified ? Or was he just waiting by his phone for his final paycheque from Sullivan ? I mean maybe he has given a list of names but that being the case why are we still swarming round sully’s pet agents as per ?
Bilic did, the board didn't get them. Pellegrini did, the board didn't get them. This inactivity in the winter window is how the board do things, no matter who the manager is.
The notion that a 0-1 today was worse than getting done by 4 by Oxford and Wimbledon is stretching it more than a bit.
No doubt we'll get the absolutely pitiful result at some point - probably Wednesday - but we are not getting thrashed by third division teams.
Moyes may not be great, but let's not have the pretence that Brother Belcher wasn't treating us to some absolutely risible performances over the last year.
These are mostly the latter's players.
It looks to me, that we probably have a split in the camp and very probably have had since the Everton away game when the wrong players got called out.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Having just got back, I don't blames Moyes at all for that pile of ****.
Firstly he put out a strong side, and ended up with his first team on the pitch
First 10 mins Balbuena and Sanchez just gifted easy passes to opponents. In fact Balbuena did it about 4 times in a row. Both these guys were put in the team to stake a claim for a place. You know seize your opportunity, show the new boss what you can do. Both were dreadful. Sanchez offers absolutely nothing. What anyone saw in him I don't know.
Haller. Moyes has clearly tried to show some faith, but the guy is static. He offers nothing and just does not do the work required of a forward. Goes down too much, no fight. just waits for a chance to be put on a plate for him. If we are to stay up he has to be replaced. Our sole main forward and someone Moyes has been lumbered with rather than what he wants I reckon.
Lanzini. Moyes, in the absence of Anderson, is trying to make Lanzini the pivotal player he once was. He is a shadow of the old Lanzini. Just offers no penetration, no ideas.
Too much sideways passing, not enough penetration. Only Noble at least looked like he was trying to drive things.
We are in a mess. We need a forward and a quality, attack minded midfielder or we are down. Moyes can only work with what he is given.
Adrianisournumber1 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:49 pm
Every time we play poorly we blame the manager first time Moyes was here no one wanted him, when Bilic was here we moaned when we hit bad form and no one moaned when Pellegrini came in and no one moaned when we sacked him.
This simply isn't true. It very much depends on what happens in the game. If we set up wrong and fail to make adjustments, if subs are poorly timed/negatively effect the team then the manager gets it. Of the team isn't fit or hasn't prepared for the opposition the manager gets it. But if players have made mistakes (see anything Roberto or Sanchez have ever done in our colours) then they typically get the stick they deserve. Lanzini is getting plenty, Haller, Diop made the mistake for the goal, Sanchez and Balbuena were getting cheered ironically every time they completed a pass (about twice each).
Blame is assigned where it's due for performances.
The underlying issue of money being syphoned out of the club, shoddy facilities, the **** stadium, inadequate transfer funds etc. Are all laid at the feet of the owners as is right.
Today there is blame and if they could feel it shame for all. Shame for the owners that the bench was so thin. Shame for Moyes and his opting to play Sanchez, failing to get the team up for the game, for probably crocking Antonio by desperately throwing him in despite him not being ready, shame for his post match interview where he reinvents shots on target statistics and shame for the performance in general. The players individually should all hang their ****ing heads and give their wages this week to a children's hospice or something. Zab ran about, Randolph couldn't stop the goal and had f*** all to do other than that, Antonio injected some needed pace and enthusiasm but then struggled with his hamstring they can have a bit of credit the rest... f*** em.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of that, I just think that a thread discussing the fact that pretty much any manager will fail with these snake oil salesmen in charge would be useful.
