David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

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Sloop John B
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Sloop John B »

Hmm... It's very thin margins... I think people are being bit zealot in their dislike for Moyes...

Sheff Utd scored after a player's individual mistake and we got a goal cruelly chalked off for VAR...

Brighton we did enough to win and then individual errors threw the game away in dramatic fashion...

I wouldn't say either result is a reflection on Moyes ability and had we an extra 4 points things would be looking a lot more hopeful.

Saying that without individual mistakes Pellegrini would still be here.

Moyes certainly has a very tough job and I think once we get past Liverpool it's then game on.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza »

Colours never run wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:55 am Not so sure. If anything, he had nothing to lose coming in from a bad position, yet has Fabianski back, amongst others and the likes of Fornals finding some form at last yet still he can't get a tune out the team and even ****'s Fornals off altgether. We are somehow performing worse than when Pellegrini was running it near the end.
The Fornals situation is bizarre as he has looked interested when playing, but the team was battered in depth before the season started, what little we had was destroyed by injuries and form throughout is a distant memory. He was always going to struggle to succeed and while yes it is getting worse that's partly just a team in a death spiral rather than specifically down to him IMO. If he was a great manager he could have picked the players up and pushed them forward, but if he was a great manager he wouldn't have even looked at this job.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by szola »

Sloop John B wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:08 am Hmm... It's very thin margins... I think people are being bit zealot in their dislike for Moyes...

Sheff Utd scored after a player's individual mistake and we got a goal cruelly chalked off for VAR...

Brighton we did enough to win and then individual errors threw the game away in dramatic fashion...

I wouldn't say either result is a reflection on Moyes ability and had we an extra 4 points things would be looking a lot more hopeful.

Saying that without individual mistakes Pellegrini would still be here.

Moyes certainly has a very tough job and I think once we get past Liverpool it's then game on.
:?

We played not to lose against SU. We had one decent effort by Anderson. And maybe the one by Haller at the end.

We were up by two goals against Brighton. At home. Fifteen minutes to go. They had almost 20 shots. We managed 12. At home. Against Brighton. One of the teams we should beat if we want to stay in the division. We played with one striker and two attacking midfielders. And yet managed to defend how?

Both games are a reflection of Moyes attitude and ability.
That is why he has been unemployed since he was sacked last time round.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by One Peter Butler »

Sloop John B wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:08 am Hmm... It's very thin margins... I think people are being bit zealot in their dislike for Moyes...

Sheff Utd scored after a player's individual mistake and we got a goal cruelly chalked off for VAR...

Brighton we did enough to win and then individual errors threw the game away in dramatic fashion...

I wouldn't say either result is a reflection on Moyes ability and had we an extra 4 points things would be looking a lot more hopeful.

Saying that without individual mistakes Pellegrini would still be here.

Moyes certainly has a very tough job and I think once we get past Liverpool it's then game on.
His own countless individual mistakes also played a part.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by steps »

Sloop John B wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:08 am Hmm... It's very thin margins... I think people are being bit zealot in their dislike for Moyes...

Brighton we did enough to win and then individual errors threw the game away in dramatic fashion...

Nothing to do with Moyes taking Antonio off and putting Masuaku on switching to five at the back and totally confusing the players then? Sitting deep inviting Brighton on and making them look like Barcelona which inevitably led to capitulation and Murray’s obligatory goal against us.
Last edited by steps on Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Brown Sauce »

Anyone still trying to defend this dour loser?
His record must be shocking.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by stammer »

One Peter Butler wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:29 am His own countless individual mistakes also played a part.

I cant remember the quote when Fabianski first got injured about adequate cover in Roberto, disaster in waiting. You cant imagine that he was a shining light in training, just to fall apart in front of crowds.

Roberto moved like he had been made from lego, if i could see that so could the supposed experts, that was a primary part of our downfall.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Turns to Stone »

Sloop John B wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:08 am Hmm... It's very thin margins... I think people are being bit zealot in their dislike for Moyes...

Sheff Utd scored after a player's individual mistake and we got a goal cruelly chalked off for VAR...

Brighton we did enough to win and then individual errors threw the game away in dramatic fashion...

I wouldn't say either result is a reflection on Moyes ability and had we an extra 4 points things would be looking a lot more hopeful.

Saying that without individual mistakes Pellegrini would still be here.

Moyes certainly has a very tough job and I think once we get past Liverpool it's then game on.
But I think a manager's job is to try and inspire confidence. If he is setting out a team to not concede, then he has to empower them to do so. And if he is trying to inspire a team to attack then he has to do that.

If Allardyce had arrived, I can guarantee that he would not have pushed this side to be playing the ball out of the back. He would have simplified everything - defenders, head, block and tackle. Midfielders - press, tackle and run hard. Attackers, play the percentages, earn the corners, get the ball into dangerous areas, make your limited possession count. Given our circumstances, I could have understood if Moyes had tried that.

But he's not, he's trying to hedge his bets. He's adding different formations, week-on-week, asking players with zero confidence to do complicated things, telling weak defenders with no confidence to soak up pressure for 90 minutes.

Psychologically, he should be trying to take pressure of his team. Simplify things for the back four, build the confidence of the strikers.

At the moment, we're not stopping conceding goals, we'v shipped 5 in two. But he's also dropped the strikers who will get him out of this. Is Haller and Anderson could form a partnership, we'd walk out of the relegation zone.

It just doesn't seem to make sense to me.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza »

steps wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:03 am Nothing to do with Moyes taking Antonio off and putting Masuaku on switching to five at the back and totally confusing the players then? Sitting deep inviting Brighton on and making them look like Barcelona which inevitably led to capitulation and Murray’s obligatory goal against us.
In fairness it would have been fine but for Masuaku failing twice to kick a ball upfield, Ogbonna deciding to leave a ball to Diop and Diop losing where his man was and then deciding Fabianski should come 15 yards to pick the ball up so leaving it as well. That goal at that point in the game shattered our confidence and the equaliser was inevitable as we shrank back and failed to hold on. I could mention the fact that their first goal wouldn't have stood if we'd score it as Fab was being held which directly caused his punch out to be weak and directly into Ogbonna and into the net, but VAR doesn't care about anything that could be called in our favour as we all know. We also got back up to 2 in front and should have pressed the game at that point instead of trying to shut up shop.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Graza »

Turns to Stone wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:09 amIs Haller and Anderson could form a partnership, we'd walk out of the relegation zone.
How good is Anderson's back at the moment though after being savagely hacked out of the game by the blunts - can we sue them for 100m at the end of the season given that one player is the difference between relegation and survival :lol:. Backs are difficult injuries just ask Sakho... So if he thinks there is a risk that Rodri is going to get another game like opening day where he can hack and hack(and injured Haller I might add) all day with no punishment he's not going to risk someone we need with a suspect back.

Also as we were doing the 5-4------------------------------1 formation on Wednesday and that isn't Hallers game he might as well rest him for Antonio who offers more in the Billy no mates striker role.

When you look early season at the games we won you see Anderson, Yarmalenko and Haller starting up top with Lanzini or Fornals in behind. We have firepower in the squad, we haven't had the option to have it on the field together often enough and our squad has no depth.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Claret & Blue World »

Sloop John B wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:08 am Hmm... It's very thin margins... I think people are being bit zealot in their dislike for Moyes...

Sheff Utd scored after a player's individual mistake and we got a goal cruelly chalked off for VAR...

Brighton we did enough to win and then individual errors threw the game away in dramatic fashion...

I wouldn't say either result is a reflection on Moyes ability and had we an extra 4 points things would be looking a lot more hopeful.

Saying that without individual mistakes Pellegrini would still be here.

Moyes certainly has a very tough job and I think once we get past Liverpool it's then game on.
Should have, could have, might have....
In the end, after 90 mins of football, the results will show a loss to S.U and a draw to Brighton.

And if you consider the overall picture of his results since he came back then it's rather ****.

By the way some said we'd kick on after Bournemouth and that didn't happen. Then ppl thought a win v BHA would be the turning point and that didn't happen.

So we'll get the loss against Liverpool out the way and kick on from there right ?! Jezus...
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by YorksHammer »

Given his utter disinterest in actually doing anything vaguely resembling steadying the ship or winning a game, and his shocking game management (such as vs Brighton), there's a part of me that's starting to believe he's just fleecing the owners of a cool £2m and deliberately trying to get us relegated just to stick it to GSB for the treatment they gave him last time.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Hammer1972 »

YorksHammer wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:43 am Given his utter disinterest in actually doing anything vaguely resembling steadying the ship or winning a game, and his shocking game management (such as vs Brighton), there's a part of me that's starting to believe he's just fleecing the owners of a cool £2m and deliberately trying to get us relegated just to stick it to GSB for the treatment they gave him last time.
No. He's just incompetent.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Belchio »

YorksHammer wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:43 am Given his utter disinterest in actually doing anything vaguely resembling steadying the ship or winning a game, and his shocking game management (such as vs Brighton), there's a part of me that's starting to believe he's just fleecing the owners of a cool £2m and deliberately trying to get us relegated just to stick it to GSB for the treatment they gave him last time.
This would require a plan. Moyes has no plans.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Sloop John B »

szola wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:25 am We were up by two goals against Brighton. At home. Fifteen minutes to go. They had almost 20 shots. We managed 12. At home. Against Brighton. One of the teams we should beat if we want to stay in the division. We played with one striker and two attacking midfielders. And yet managed to defend how?
Like you say 2 goals up with 15 left... Could argue the Manger did his job...And then the total cartoon defense kicks in
steps wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:03 am Nothing to do with Moyes taking Antonio off and putting Masuaku on switching to five at the back and totally confusing the players then? Sitting deep inviting Brighton on and making them look like Barcelona which inevitably led to capitulation and Murray’s obligatory goal against us.
I think your over egging that a bit. Substitution was reasonable but it was Masuaku's performance that kicked it all off. Moyes seems to have a bit of a blind spot for Masuaku (and let's not forget plenty on KUMB have been arguing all season he should be our starting LB)
Turns to Stone wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:09 am If Allardyce had arrived, I can guarantee that he would not have pushed this side to be playing the ball out of the back. He would have simplified everything - defenders, head, block and tackle. Midfielders - press, tackle and run hard. Attackers, play the percentages, earn the corners, get the ball into dangerous areas, make your limited possession count. Given our circumstances, I could have understood if Moyes had tried that.
Oh I agree. I think the Fat one is a league above Moyes in terms of ability as a manager.
Claret & Blue World wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:29 am Should have, could have, might have....
In the end, after 90 mins of football, the results will show a loss to S.U and a draw to Brighton.
God do we go round and round on this one... It's the results that matter...until we start to win ugly and then it's the performances that matter :lol:
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Humbug »

I'm going to give Moyes a bit of slack here because imho , MP and Husillos (and the incompetent board) have done real damage to our scouting system , buying the wrong players at inflated fees and crazy contracts. The big problem with Moyes is that he is not one of those managers who can give us a 'honeymoon' period to get results quickly and out of a relegation battle. I'm more concerned about us getting rid of the mercenary dross we have now and replacing them with committed players for the long term rather than short term success just enough to save us every year? The whole club needs restructuring to agree on the style of football we want to play and can afford to play - is it for entertainment or just plain survival or a bit of both? With Bilic we got a bit of entertainment and then it turned to dross , MP bought a few players , we got a bit of honeymoon entertainment and now its turned to dross. Moyes has now only been able to buy 2 players to add to the dross he's inherited , so he's got no choice but to try and survive before getting rid of the dross.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by TheHandOfDog »

Turns to Stone wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:37 am Moyes' points return alone make a look like a poor appointment. But when you add in the performances, it just hasn't worked.
Pretty much this. Complete failure so far.
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Claret & Blue World »

God do we go round and round on this one... It's the results that matter...until we start to win ugly and then it's the performances that matter :lol:
[/quote]

That's right, theres are a few sad people that go round and round thinking we should have had 4 points from the S.U and BHA games and therefore Moyes is not utterly incompetent and the team not entirely £hit.

But reality kicks in.....
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Sloop John B wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:58 am Like you say 2 goals up with 15 left... Could argue the Manger did his job...And then the total cartoon defense kicks in

If the game was 75 minutes long then you could argue Moyes did his job. However, a game is 90+ minutes long and managers earn their stripes in how they deal with situations for the whole time

We were 3-1 up [a little luckily IMHO, but 3-1 up nonetheless] and then he decides to make changes that invite almost constant pressure for 20 minutes. Yes, there were individual mistakes made [but hardly compete howlers], but that is what happens if you keep changing the formation mid game, and then you invite pressure by trying to defend for the whole time. Brighton had something like 12 shots in 15 minutes compared to our 0, so conceding was fairly inevitable, mistakes or not. The manager earned three points, then gave two of them away.

As TTS correctly states in an earlier post, individual mistakes are not always down solely to the player. A manager can do things to limit individual mistakes players make
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Re: David Moyes - 18th Permanent Manager of WHUFC

Post by YorksHammer »

Two deflected Snodgrass volleys masked a lot against Brighton, although that was pretty much the only game since Bournemouth we had looked like doing anything in attack.
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