David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

[DaveWHU1964]

I very much doubt Moyes only earned £10k a week, or if he did I’m sure he got a significant bonus for keeping us up.

Edit: looks like he was on £15k a week and got a £2m bonus. So £2.5m for 6 months work, I bet most managers would take that.

... so why didn't they go for someone who is a little more this decade then David Moyes? Maybe they simply prefer staff whose mediocrity and desperateness for a job, any job, even this one, means they are grateful?

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

So what happens if we do well in the FA Cup? Do we still hate him?

I think he would win over some critics by respecting the cups, but it's only what a team of our calibre should be doing so. I don't see it happening though. A QF against Arsenal with no interest and an exit against Wigan when we were in a similar league position. However, I can still accept that a little bit more than Pellegrini throwing cup games against AFC Wimbledon and Oxford when we were in a decent league position both times. We were something like 10th and 5th when we played those two?

What Moyes has to realise is that a win away at Gillingham is a confidence boost for players and fans and that the cup is something to unite the fans and excite them. Many fans will see it as season over (though could still be worse) if we face defeat at another League One side.

Gillingham are also playing pretty well, so it's a test for the first team regardless.

[fjthegrey]

Yeah, if we whimper out of the cup the apathy hits overdrive, any semblance of potential patience evaporates and the vitriol is packaged up and in the mail.

[denzel]

So what happens if we do well in the FA Cup? Do we still hate him?

Who hates him?

[1959]

Best summary I’ve read in today’s Guardian by Jonathan Liew.

Scarily funny (as below), but great insight when he describes how pursuit of football romance at a mid ranking club (Pellegrini) inevitably meets the business plan (Moyes)!

“Speaking to the club’s official website, Moyes expressed his intention to get West Ham playing bold, risk-taking football. “The players will need to be brave enough to take the ball and play,” he said, before realising a caveat was necessary. “But also, we’re going to have to defend better,” he added, at which point a little bell appeared to go off in his head. “But we’re also,” he ended with a triumphant flourish, “going to have to attack better.” Have three consecutive sentences ever illuminated a man so distinctly? And at this point one was reminded of a passage in Rio Ferdinand’s book when Moyes, as Manchester United manager, simultaneously instructs him to bring the ball out of defence while looking to play early diagonal passes. Once, after he and Nemanja Vidic were summoned to a video session and offered wildly contradictory advice on how closely to mark a striker, Ferdinand turned to his defensive partner and blankly admitted: “I don’t know what the f*** he just asked us to do.”

But, in fairness, there’s balance:

“There is, naturally, an element of caricature here. Many who have worked with Moyes describe it as an agreeably bracing experience. Work rate and professionalism levels will almost certainly see an immediate bump. Marko Arnautovic and Manuel Lanzini, for instance, benefited hugely from his input first time round, and at a club where nutty mavericks have always had the run of the place – from Di Canio to the Dildo Brothers – the ability to restore some sanity to the henhouse is an underrated skill. Don’t be surprised if, say, Felipe Anderson’s goal drought – 22 games and counting – is broken very soon.”

[thejackhammer]

The Arsenal game was completely abject but it was just as much us as them. We both played weakened sides but I'm fairly sure ours was massively to do with injuries.

Fairly sure there was one shot on target for the entire match, that Hart should have saved anyway, and Hernandez waltzed around up front putting no effort in.

Against Wigan we were equally bad but equally injury hit, Obiang got an awful injury, we had 10 men and their second goal was a penalty. This was a league winning wigan side who had only conceded 13 goals that entire season. They beat Man City in the next round.

[BondsoBob]

It's all a bit of a shambles isn't it?
If the people get the government they deserve then I suppose football clubs get the manager they deserve.

[Hammer1972]

Who hates him?

Exactly. The majority of us are vastly underwhelmed by his re-appointment and think we deserve better. The poll bears that out.

Many of us are also bored of the constant Moyes can do no wrong agenda that seems to have been allowed to take over every discussion on managers in the last 2 years.

It doesn't mean we hate Moyes, or do not want him and the team to do well. No one will be happier than me if the team turns a corner and starts to play again.

[Heysel76]

It's all a bit of a shambles isn't it?
If the people get the government they deserve then I suppose football clubs get the manager they deserve.

Whatever your political views West Ham aint a democracy

[stu1]

... so why didn't they go for someone who is a little more this decade then David Moyes? Maybe they simply prefer staff whose mediocrity and desperateness for a job, any job, even this one, means they are grateful?

Probably because he achieved what was asked of him last time and despite pushing the boat out for a ‘world class’ manager that manager failed miserably.

All that being said I don’t really see what your post has to do with my comment. Are you implying only a desperate manager would accept a job for 6 months that could pay him £2.5m? If so, that’s a rather strange view.

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

The Arsenal game was completely abject but it was just as much us as them. We both played weakened sides but I'm fairly sure ours was massively to do with injuries.

The Arsenal game was annoying for a lot of reasons, but them playing a weakened side makes it worse. They were **** and beatable and it was a cup QF. We had about 7,000 fans there. A win at The Emirates would've boosted everyone and we would've left that stadium bouncing at a cup semi-final. The result of that is we would've turned up at home to Newcastle in a positive mood. We rested players against Arsenal to save them for the Newcastle home game. We set up wrong (Zabaleta against Atsu, so wasn't just Pellegrini here) and we got beat. However, while getting beat by Newcastle at home was bad enough, what I kept hearing over and over again was how we rested players in a QF and threw that away to lose to Newcastle anyway...which is true.

I'm not slating Moyes for the reason he done it. We were struggling in the league, he was on a short contract with a big bonus for keeping us up. It was his main aim, but due to this he failed to realise what that cup win could've done for fans and players alike.

[fjthegrey]

That Arsenal game is one of my all time most miserable experiences as a West Ham fan I think.

Sigh.

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

That Arsenal game is one of my all time most miserable experiences as a West Ham fan I think.

Sigh.

Yeah, Arsenal didn't give 2 shits and a massive opportunity was there. Especially as we had that comeback win against Tottenham to get there. People were buzzing for it and we somehow decided to be less interested than Arsenal were (Which shouldn't even be possible). That increased pressure and pessimism for the Newcastle game with an eggs in one basket approach and in typical West Ham fashion we lost that also. Out the cup and a home defeat to a **** side just before Xmas...

[Ding]

Plenty on here derided Moyes before a ball was kicked last time he was here to clean up the Bilic mess. He ended up doing a decent job and when he wasn’t extended most cheered and promptly forgot to even acknowledge the decent job he did. That professional job he did was rationalised away with half truths and convenient flippancy.

I had never thought that West Ham fans were ungracious and unfair before. For 40 years I’ve always loved that we had the sense to appreciate the trier, however unfashionable. What is West Ham but the spiritual home for the trier and the underdog? Yet too many forgot to thank (or even acknowledge) the trier for doing a decent job.

Why?

Because he failed at Man U, Real S and Sunderland? Well, I won’t waste time arguing that there were extenuating circumstances. Folks who know this already acknowledge them and those who don’t won’t ever go past using these as a stick to beat a man they don’t like regardless.

Perhaps it is because he played a pragmatic, more direct brand of football that is supposed to be turgid. Weird one then - cos in my memory his team often played decent football - not tippy tappy - but certainly not anti-football either. He, like many managers managing middling clubs like ours, have to be pragmatic. I don’t see much wrong with that - especially as I also remember shapeless, directionless, clueless, horrible football under Bilic and (more recently, Pellers), both of whom are supposedly to be advocates of sexy football and don’t get half the stick.

I hear often that it’s the fault of the board that Bilic and Pellers failed at West Ham. Fact is no one really knows. The truth is probably a mixture of stuff. The only thing for sure is that they failed.

Yet here we are - fans of the spiritual home of the trier and the underdog - pissing all over a trier who has saved us from relegation 18 months ago - before a ball is kicked once again.

The Daves have changed West Ham. That I do agree. Far more than you think.

[DaveWHU1964]

Probably because he achieved what was asked of him last time and despite pushing the boat out for a ‘world class’ manager that manager failed miserably.

All that being said I don’t really see what your post has to do with my comment. Are you implying only a desperate manager would accept a job for 6 months that could pay him £2.5m? If so, that’s a rather strange view.

Going by your figures he did accept a job that could pay him £2.5 million for six months. What he didn't do was accept a job that definitely would pay him that amount. He accepted a job for £15k a week basic. Great money for you and me but for a PL manager? The £2 million part of your £2.5 million was a bonus to stay up. ie - not guaranteed. Sullivan must have felt the same degree of pride in securing his services as he did when he brought in Mido for a grand a week. Moyes was desperate to get back into the game then - he's still desperate.

But yes, he did achieve what he was brought in to do last time. And he was binned for his troubles for Pellegrini who had apparently been lined up by West Ham months before Moyes's goal was achieved and months after Sullivan had claimed on Moyes's appointment that the Scot shared our ambitions. Where is the man's dignity that he would come back here to work for these employers? Last time around I felt some sympathy for he way he'd been treated. I won't bother doing the same when they treat him the same way again. And they will.

So yes, he's desperate. I would be too if I'd been out of work for twenty months.

[Eastbourne Hammer]

Plenty on here derided Moyes before a ball was kicked last time he was here to clean up the Bilic mess. He ended up doing a decent job and when he wasn’t extended most cheered and promptly forgot to even acknowledge the decent job he did. That professional job he did was rationalised away with half truths and convenient flippancy.

I had never thought that West Ham fans were ungracious and unfair before. For 40 years I’ve always loved that we had the sense to appreciate the trier, however unfashionable. What is West Ham but the spiritual home for the trier and the underdog? Yet too many forgot to thank (or even acknowledge) the trier for doing a decent job.

Why?

Because he failed at Man U, Real S and Sunderland? Well, I won’t waste time arguing that there were extenuating circumstances. Folks who know this already acknowledge them and those who don’t won’t ever go past using these as a stick to beat a man they don’t like regardless.

Perhaps it is because he played a pragmatic, more direct brand of football that is supposed to be turgid. Weird one then - cos in my memory his team often played decent football - not tippy tappy - but certainly not anti-football either. He, like many managers managing middling clubs like ours, have to be pragmatic. I don’t see much wrong with that - especially as I also remember shapeless, directionless, clueless, horrible football under Bilic and (more recently, Pellers), both of whom are supposedly to be advocates of sexy football and don’t get half the stick.

I hear often that it’s the fault of the board that Bilic and Pellers failed at West Ham. Fact is no one really knows. The truth is probably a mixture of stuff. The only thing for sure is that they failed.

Yet here we are - fans of the spiritual home of the trier and the underdog - pissing all over a trier who has saved us from relegation 18 months ago - before a ball is kicked once again.

The Daves have changed West Ham. That I do agree. Far more than you think.

Best post I've read on here for a while. Cheers Ding.

[mushy]

I think he would win over some critics by respecting the cups, but it's only what a team of our calibre should be doing so.

Not one manager under the current regime has taken the FA Cup seriously. The answer of course lies with the owners and this was confirmed recently on Talksport by Allardyce who said that the owners always emphasised to him that there was absolutely no reward for doing well in any cup competition.
The Prem is the only result they are interested in.
Be interested to see what happens Sunday because it just might be that Moyes is forced to buck the trend to head off clear fan unrest.
It wont last though.

[jastons]

Not one manager under the current regime has taken the FA Cup seriously. The answer of course lies with the owners and this was confirmed recently on Talksport by Allardyce who said that the owners always emphasised to him that there was absolutely no reward for doing well in any cup competition.
The Prem is the only result they are interested in.
Be interested to see what happens Sunday because it just might be that Moyes is forced to buck the trend to head off clear fan unrest.
It wont last though.

Unfortunately the same has to be said for the Europa League. Twice we qualified and twice the team didn't give a f*ck. It would be great to have winners in charge of West Ham.

[Burnley Hammer]

Exactly. The majority of us are vastly underwhelmed by his re-appointment and think we deserve better. The poll bears that out.

Many of us are also bored of the constant Moyes can do no wrong agenda that seems to have been allowed to take over every discussion on managers in the last 2 years.

It doesn't mean we hate Moyes, or do not want him and the team to do well. No one will be happier than me if the team turns a corner and starts to play again.

If the vast majority are underwhelmed then how is it that the 'moyes can do no wrong' agenda has taken over? Nothing wrong with having a balance of opinions.... there's just as many OTT negative opinions on here as there are positive. Probably more. I think some defend him more than they originally intended as they feel the criticism by many is a little unfair. I include myself in that. It is a fairly underwhelming appointment but at the same time, I honestly don't feel he's anywhere near as bad as some are making out. I actually think there's a fair chance he'll do a good job. He certainly needs that and wants that a lot more than Pellegrini did. As for the pro Moyes agenda taking over other threads about other managers... we're mainly just talking about a single poster here aren't we?

We may deserver better but do GSB deserve better? If it's entertainment and win percentages you want then just be thankful we didn't go for Dyche.

[Puff Daddy]

He's got one hellava job on his hands, but at least he's saying all the right things and things I hoped to hear