How much do you care about relegation?

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Coops
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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Coops » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:46 pm

The owners will be fine, this isn't their first rodeo. They have been down with us and they took Birmingham down three times.
Yeah sure their pride will be dented, but I think it is really being over egged on here how much it will really effect them.

The only thing they really care about is money. With the sale of their biggest playing assets and the parachute payments, they will be golden for at least a couple of seasons. I reckon it would take at least 3 years in lower leagues to really start to effect them where it hurts.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Hockley Hammer » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:51 pm

Greatest Cockney Rip Off wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:34 pm
The current West Ham is just a parody of the team I used to support and they're unrecognisable to the team I loved for nearly 40 years.
Exactly how I feel after 54 years. My head says bow out after this season as it isn't going to get any better under these three *****, I hope I have the courage to see it through as I really don't enjoy it anymore.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Nesticles » Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:55 pm

It could easily be 3 or more years out of the Prem this time around

I would imagine (and hope) lots of home games will have tiers of the stadium closed off due to lack of attendance. Plenty of teams in the lower leagues will turn up to the OS and leave with 3 points

Brady might want to park those permits for a 60k stadium for the time being

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Cellar-door » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:05 pm

Everyone saying that they want to go down to stick it to the board and move stadiums is delusional.

Going down does 1 of 2 things for the board:

1. We come right back up and Sullivan pats himself on the back for his glorious RESCUE.
2. We don't come back up and G&S choose not to sell up passing the club on to their kids.

Going down won't change the stadium. The lease was literally written with clauses in the scenario that we went down. If you think having less rent to pay on someone else's stadium would make the board want to leave.... well I don't know who you've been watching the last 10 years.

Also.... has David Sullivan ever given the impression that public shaming is going to change him? He's a porn merchant who is routinely mocked in the press and a constant source of embarrassment. if anything going down just lets him be more shameless.

Edit- Also, don't expect significantly cheaper tickets, go take a look at QPR's season ticket prices for example.
Last edited by Cellar-door on Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by iLoveLasagne » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:08 pm

Cellar-door wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:05 pm
Everyone saying that they want to go down to stick it to the board and move stadiums is delusional.

Going down does 1 of 2 things for the board:

1. We come right back up and Sullivan pats himself on the back for his glorious RESCUE.
2. We don't come back up and G&S choose not to sell up passing the club on to their kids.

Going down won't change the stadium. The lease was literally written with clauses in the scenario that we went down. If you think having less rent to pay on someone else's stadium would make the board want to leave.... well I don't know who you've been watching the last 10 years.

Also.... has David Sullivan ever given the impression that public shaming is going to change him? He's a porn merchant who is routinely mocked in the press and a constant source of embarrassment. if anything going down just lets him be more shameless.
So what are we left to hope for? We know that the club won't be successful because that is not their aim. Do we go along with their intentions of surviving relegation battles each year on shoe-string budgets? Let them feel some pain and let's see how they react.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Cellar-door » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:10 pm

iLoveLasagne wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:08 pm
So what are we left to hope for? We know that the club won't be successful because that is not their aim. Do we go along with their intentions of surviving relegation battles each year on shoe-string budgets? Let them feel some pain and let's see how they react.
Except they won't feel any is the point. Oh they might be slightly annoyed, but until they sell a dip in club valuation doesn't mean much.
What we should hope for is that they sell up as soon as the sell-up clause expires, and that is most likely to happen if we stay up.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by SEAHammer » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:22 pm

I care massively .... I don't want us to be the next Sunderland rattling around in a half full stadium losing all our best players, our youngsters and any half decent staff. If you think we will compete whilst slashing our budgets by 100m you're dreaming ... off the three that went down last season

Fulham are 3rd ... but they were still mostly a Championship budget club with just one season up in the EPL, after getting relegated they kept most of their squad
Cardiff 13th ... also still a Championship budget club just one season up in the EPL, again kept most off their squad
Huddersfield 20th ... two seasons in the EPL with an owner who re-branded them and replaced their crest, lost their main sponsor and the core of their squad with 11 players leaving when they went down

West Ham ... seven seasons in the EPL massive wages budget ... which one are we more likely to imitate?

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by warp » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:24 pm

i really hope we manage to avoid relegation yet again, can't wait for another season of the amazing football we've played so far...
yeah, right? f*** that.
give a **** about the board, they're filthy rich regardless of what happens to west ham, i just hope their retirement will be long and painful, and when they end up in a home for the senile, the nurses and doctors attending them will be bitter west ham fans.

as for the championship, more games, different opposition, no VAR and either we win a few games, or look even more pathetic than we do now. and if we're lucky we get the third coming of Carlton Cole (that might need one more relegation, but of course it would be totally worth it).

worst west ham related thing that could happen to the board is we get back to back to back to back relegations and some nutter (it only takes one) loses it and does something very wrong and stupid to any of them. is that really what we want?











(no, i wouldn't be overly happy, but i wouldn't mind)

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by sicknote » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:33 pm

Greatest Cockney Rip Off wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:34 pm


My West Ham died in 2016. The current West Ham is just a parody of the team I used to support and they're unrecognisable to the team I loved for nearly 40 years.
D I S C O


That’s it in a nutshell

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Alex77 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:37 pm

Having attended the demo with my 8 year old son and listened / talked to a fair few people the thing I felt most was sadness. Sadness that he will never experience what supporting West Ham is really like and that the very supporters central to that experience are the most marginalised / demonised by the current owners and least relevant to their aspirations of making huge amounts of money for themselves whilst running the club and its identity into the ground.

And that's central to the whole relegation debate. If the owners are financially hit by relegation and indeed whenever and however they bail out they will never be out of pocket. They will walk away with millions regardless. There is no real victory to be had over them except to keep calling them out for the charlatans that they are and the lies that they continue to perpetuate.

Like most longstanding West Ham fans I've seen them relegated on a number of occasions, sometimes they haven't been good enough, sometimes they've had incompetent managers (Roeder and Grant spring to mind) and questionable board aspirations / ambition have been a constant.

This is completely different though. The asset stripping and complete lack of integrity in investing in the future of the club whilst maintaining a relentless marketing charade about having a top 6 squad, moving to the next level is criminal as is the toxic repetitive cycle it creates of blame the incumbent manager, blame the new manager, blame the players.

And the only real losers are the fans or those who haven't already walked away and the more that do walk away the less of what very little remains of the club''s identity is left.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:58 pm

Image

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by pezza20 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:11 pm

Issue about going down is money, nothing else.

Parachute and champ TV money barely reaches 45m quid.

We have trimmed our wage bill but still pay above average wages to mediocre players which means we will be largely giving away our better players, being forced to buy champ players on lower wages and promote some youth into the team. Remember we have no assets left to leverage so the only route Sullivan can take is pump more of his own money into the club, which in turn will increase the interest returns the 2 stooges get on that loan.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Clucking Bell » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:43 pm

Not an easy question to answer.

As I live in the States, I've got used to paying my $65 and being able to watch every PL game. In fact, my first world problem is cup games: I have to find a stream which is often easier said than done. So from a personal, pain in the ass standpoint, I'd prefer us to remain in the Premier League.

The second reason that I'd broadly prefer us to stay up is that I don't think relegation will rid us of GSB in the short term. I reckon we'd need to be down for at least two seasons before they'd cut their losses and, at that point, all of our decent players would have moved on and the club would be worthless. The risk then becomes them selling up to another chancer who doesn't have the necessary capital to invest and get us back up the table.

I think the chances of us getting bought by a genuine multi-billionaire who is prepared to sink several hundred million into the team and sort out the clusterfuck of the OS are pretty low. In truth, I think the likelihood is that we'd become another Coventry.

On the other hand, if getting relegated resulted in the club being sold to, say, the bloke who owns Team Ineos before next Christmas, I'm all in favour.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:55 pm

I just think we’ll be asset stripped to f*** player wise and considering our training ground is ****, we don’t own our own stadium and we have owners who don’t like spending money, I generally think we won’t recover.

I really don’t want us languishing in lower divisions. The small hope of the odd good season and cup run is about all we have really. Take that away and that’s it. They would have won.

I really think relegation is badly different this time. The first time under them was early into their tenure and it forced them to spend some money and appoint a manager who would get the job done. The same intent doesn’t seem to be there to save us this time and they obviously aren’t in a state of panic. If they aren’t worried about relegation then I really think we should be for that reason alone...

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Mega Ron » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:01 pm

The owners likely value the club at a much higher price than they are able to achieve.

Even disregarding the issue of the stadium, in terms of it's suitability for football, almost everything else about the club needs rebooting.

The facilities for the players need upgrading, at a huge cost. The commercial department needs a complete overhaul. We need a new scouting setup. It's all cost, cost, cost.

However, the Daves will be trying to achieve a price that assumes those things are already in place. Or, with our premier League status in place, they will try to get that valuation in spite of the club being a horror show.

Going down a division will lead to another big gamble. Attempt to get back right away, or within 3 seasons, or bust.

That's the 3 years before the covenant to do with the sale of the club is up anyway. Achieve promotion in that time and it might all work out perfectly for them.

Fail and they might get seriously stressed.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by neathiron » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:14 pm

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:55 pm
I just think we’ll be asset stripped to **** player wise and considering our training ground is ****, we don’t own our own stadium and we have owners who don’t like spending money, I generally think we won’t recover.

I really don’t want us languishing in lower divisions. The small hope of the odd good season and cup run is about all we have really. Take that away and that’s it. They would have won.

I really think relegation is badly different this time. The first time under them was early into their tenure and it forced them to spend some money and appoint a manager who would get the job done. The same intent doesn’t seem to be there to save us this time and they obviously aren’t in a state of panic. If they aren’t worried about relegation then I really think we should be for that reason alone...
:thup: They'll still be filling their pockets even when we're in the Championship. We could be stuck with GSB even longer down there. It could be a convenient excuse that they won't sell up until they get us back to the Premiership should we get relegated. Or it could be their way of getting revenge on the fans for giving them abuse since the move. Who knows how they're thinking.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Ozza » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:24 pm

Cellar-door wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:05 pm
Everyone saying that they want to go down to stick it to the board and move stadiums is delusional.

Going down does 1 of 2 things for the board:

1. We come right back up and Sullivan pats himself on the back for his glorious RESCUE.
2. We don't come back up and G&S choose not to sell up passing the club on to their kids.

Going down won't change the stadium. The lease was literally written with clauses in the scenario that we went down. If you think having less rent to pay on someone else's stadium would make the board want to leave.... well I don't know who you've been watching the last 10 years.

Also.... has David Sullivan ever given the impression that public shaming is going to change him? He's a porn merchant who is routinely mocked in the press and a constant source of embarrassment. if anything going down just lets him be more shameless.

Edit- Also, don't expect significantly cheaper tickets, go take a look at QPR's season ticket prices for example.
Or we go down the fan base turn including the ones that are currently supporting them, attendances drop the press turn yadda yadda.

So what if they’ve been in a relegation season before that was a while ago the world of football has changed, bouncing back is different and it’s certainly different with a totally disengaged and indifferent supporter base.

Their product is only going to depreciate with no guarantee of success, I’m not sure their prepared to take it on.

Anyone can spin a possible situation however they want. The one thing we know is that remaining in this league certainly means more of these c**** doing what they do, I’m quite prepared to take the spin and see what falls out.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by rainhamtown » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:50 pm

In the 30 plus years I've supported the team i always enjoyed the period after a relegation year. It mostly provided a welcome refresh and clear out of dead wood (except 02/03), we win more games and feel what its like to be the big boys. Plus we promote some youth.

I feel Upton Park was our differentiating factor against other clubs that go down once in a while. That atmosphere and guaranteed 35k attendances meant we would always get back eventually. It could be very different next time in the OS.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by neathiron » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:56 pm

rainhamtown wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:50 pm


I feel Upton Park was our differentiating factor against other clubs that go down once in a while. That atmosphere and guaranteed 35k attendances meant we would always get back eventually. It could be very different next time in the OS.
Yep, opposing teams will raise their game playing in a big stadium like ours. Our home record since the move isn't too great, I wouldn't expect it to improve much in the lower leagues.

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Re: How much do you care about relegation?

Post by Ozza » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:58 pm

I thought we struggled against visiting teams last time we went down?

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