Our players are not good enough

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Coops
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Coops » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:17 am

hammerman11 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:59 am
the question is would many of our players get a start in most PL teams outside the bottom 3 ?
Rice, Antonio, Fornals, Fab possibly Anderson if whoever was managing him could get him to last years form.
Then possible Ogbonna and at a push Diop.
I reckon those are all good enough for a mid table prem side.

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sendô
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by sendô » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:18 am

The lack of pace is key.

Look at the difference first half to second half.

First half all the balls were on the floor, to feet or to chest. No danger of a ball in the channel, over the top or through the centre backs for Haller to run onto, therefore Sorynchu or whatever his name is was up Haller's arse every time he got the ball. There was no threat to them, so they could squeeze up, and every time we got the ball and looked to go forward it ended up coming straight back.

Second half with Antonio on it all changed - the pace threat was there, they had to drop off and it created us more space to work.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by RichieRiv » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:18 am

Prior to the Oxford game (barring the Man City game) they were performing and playing some neat and tidy football.

Something is afoot, but somehow I don't think its quality.

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BobbyWHU
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by BobbyWHU » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:49 am

The way the team is set up and personnel is just wrong at the minute. In modern day football wing backs are so important, and yet we had cresswell and zabaleta playing last night. Fredericks is out granted, but why can't we use full backs properly? I thought the reluctance to put the ball in the box was a result of anderson, but the whole team has the problem now. Again I genuinely think this is down to the full backs/wingers that they dont put the ball in as if it is cleared they are gonna be running back the full length of the pitch. Just look at Chilwell and Pereira last night, the difference in energy is frightening. In addition, we have just bought the same player about 5 times... why don't we have a winger playing on their natural side without the need to cut in, who can get to the byline and put a cross in?

I would say we comfortably have the worst center midfield partnership in the league, Rice has looked lost the past few weeks and Noble is finished - constantly play backwards and always pick the easiest pass. We desperately need someone up their with haller, ajeti has to be given a go to just run his socks off and provide bit of support - we can't just constantly be leaning on antonio.

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Pango
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Pango » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:18 am

Some are ... some are not ...

Too many same-ish players ... no energy and no pace whatsoever.

Make no mistake this lays firmly at the feet of GSB and also Pellers. Frankly to go into a season without a proper backup goalkeeper is scandalous to say the least.

So what is Gullivan going to do about it in the next week ... next to nothing probably ..... and try a leave it to David Moyes to somehow fudge out a few wins and draws at the end of the season when we have some winnable fixtures.

You could not make it up .....

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Knighter10WHU » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:18 am

I disagree, there are some good players in that squad, not in every position granted but in my opinion the following are more than good enough as Premier League midtable players: Fabianski, Diop, Ogbonna, Rice, Fornals, Lanzini, Anderson, Antonio & Haller. There's a core of a team there that should be good enough to keep us in the league but unfortunately they all seem to be in bad form/lacking confidence all at the same time bar Antonio who is carrying the team on his 3 week on/3 week off muscle injury cycle at the moment.

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Pob!
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Pob! » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:37 am

In other news. Brown Bears like Salmon.

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Pango
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Pango » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:42 am

K10WHU

Please remove Lanzini from that string ....

Rozzop
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Rozzop » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:43 am

Knighter10WHU wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:18 am
I disagree, there are some good players in that squad, not in every position granted but in my opinion the following are more than good enough as Premier League midtable players: Fabianski, Diop, Ogbonna, Rice, Fornals, Lanzini, Anderson, Antonio & Haller. There's a core of a team there that should be good enough to keep us in the league but unfortunately they all seem to be in bad form/lacking confidence all at the same time bar Antonio who is carrying the team on his 3 week on/3 week off muscle injury cycle at the moment.
I agree, on paper those names are decent. But the problem is the others are not premier league quality.

What with injuries and wanting to switch formations and make subs any team featuring the 4 full backs, noble, snodgrass, balbuena, etc would struggle.

Stick zabaleta, masuaku, noble and balbuena in palaces first 11 for extended periods and they would be relegated. Same for anyone. If chelsea had snodgrass and noble they wouldnt be top ten.

Poor squad building and its been the same for years.

You spend 85 mil on your shiny new ferraris (anderson and haller) and expect them to do well playing alongside your clapped out toyota that failed its mot 3 years ago.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Absolutely Hammered! » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:48 am

The removal of kouyate and obiang has left us so exposed that we conceede even more than ever now. Any ball winners and pace we had is now gone.
Obiang leaving and not being replacing was the straw that broke the camel's back me thinks.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Het-Field » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:01 pm

I’d argue the long term core aren’t good enough. Since promotion in 2012 (and before) we’ve accumulated players who had been with us for years. As players like Song, Downing, Sakho, Payet, Arnautovic, Hernandez fell away, or Nocherino, Moses, Fonte, Diarra, Razvan, Armero, Arbeloa never really met their potential, we have been left with a lot of the same players who we keep returning too in spite of their clear limitations and the lack of interest from other clubs in purchasing them.

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Knighter10WHU
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Knighter10WHU » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:03 pm

Pango wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:42 am
K10WHU

Please remove Lanzini from that string ....
Lanzini was and still is a technically good footballer who is coming back from a severe injury. It wasn't that long ago that some of the best clubs in the country were after him. He is lacking sharpness and a lot of confidence, the club need to get behind him rather than sack him off at the first time of trouble. That said I wouldn't be starting him at the moment, use him as an option off the bench.

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Knighter10WHU
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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Knighter10WHU » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:12 pm

Rozzop wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:43 am
I agree, on paper those names are decent. But the problem is the others are not premier league quality.

What with injuries and wanting to switch formations and make subs any team featuring the 4 full backs, noble, snodgrass, balbuena, etc would struggle.

Stick zabaleta, masuaku, noble and balbuena in palaces first 11 for extended periods and they would be relegated. Same for anyone. If chelsea had snodgrass and noble they wouldnt be top ten.

Poor squad building and its been the same for years.

You spend 85 mil on your shiny new ferraris (anderson and haller) and expect them to do well playing alongside your clapped out toyota that failed its mot 3 years ago.
Under investment in key areas for years has been the issue and we have ended up with this shambles of a squad. I can't remember who said it, might have been in the match thread but fullbacks are one of the most vital positions in the Premier League these days, the fact that out of our 4 full backs a mediocre Ryan Fredericks is probably our best all-round says everything you need to know about under investment there.

CM has been dire for years - probably since Alex Song left and Kouyate went off the boil after we moved. We replaced Song with Kouyate who was good for 1 year, brought in Obiang as well who also had 1 good year. Sold the pair of them and replaced them with Carlos Sanchez and Snodgrass as a makeshift CM. Quite how you go from Alex Song to Carlos Sanchez and expect to progress is beyond me.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by sirwilliambonds » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:16 pm

I think we do have some quality players in the squad but far too much dross. Things have been made much worse by the inexplicable decision to allow both Fernandez and Obiang to leave and bring in Sanchez as a back up midfielder. Another major issue is our continuing insistence on buying sicknotes. Fredericks is a half decent right back but has always been injury prone and Zabaletta is simply not up to the job anymore. Yarmolenko is another sicknote who is no use to us. Wilshere goes without saying. Up front we have Ajeti as our sole striker back up option (aside from the superb Antonio who gives everything). Nobody knows how bad he actually is as we haven't really seen him yet (which tells a story in itself) but the rumour is most of the squad think he's gash and championship standard at best (another Hugill). I suspect we might get to see for ourselves just how pony this feller is on Saturday as Moyes is bound to do everything in his power to lose the cup game.

Its a very unbalanced squad, we are a right back short, 2 central midfielders short and 2 strikers short. We probably need a left back as well because Cresswell is too slow these days. Masuaku is ok as a wingback but you can't play him in a 4 because his positional play is all over the shop. I thought he actually did ok last night and at least he has some pace, something we lack.
Of our flair players, lanzini looks finished and Anderson is out for a month. Fornals is shaping up well and improving with every game as he gets used to the pace and physicality of English football. Inexplicable to me that he didn't last night. Moyes must surely realise by now that playing Haller up front on his own with Lanzini off of him is a waste of time.

A lot of people here have defended Moyes but to me his is yesterday's man. I saw the interview where he said we might not sign anyone in the transfer window. If he actually knew what he was doing he would have said if we don't sign a couple of players we will go down because to me, that is a very real possibility. This is shaping up as a season where you actually need 40 points to stay up. We've got form in these sort of seasons having gone down on a record 42 points in the past. If we do go down I, and I expect quite a lot of others, will give up my season ticket next season. Can't see us coming back for a long time as the atmosphere will just be toxic.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Het-Field » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:25 pm

Knighter10WHU wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:12 pm
Under investment in key areas for years has been the issue and we have ended up with this shambles of a squad. I can't remember who said it, might have been in the match thread but fullbacks are one of the most vital positions in the Premier League these days, the fact that out of our 4 full backs a mediocre Ryan Fredericks is probably our best all-round says everything you need to know about under investment there.

CM has been dire for years - probably since Alex Song left and Kouyate went off the boil after we moved. We replaced Song with Kouyate who was good for 1 year, brought in Obiang as well who also had 1 good year. Sold the pair of them and replaced them with Carlos Sanchez and Snodgrass as a makeshift CM. Quite how you go from Alex Song to Carlos Sanchez and expect to progress is beyond me.
Under investment is a crucial part of this. But you’ve hit the nail on the head about the wing backs. And this goes back a long, long time. I’m really perplexed at how a club that has not produced a natural corner/wing back in a long time can go this long with investing as little as it has in the position. And that’s not just this administration, the ones before did exactly the same. Andy Impey, Lucas Neill, Konchesky Spector, Pantsil, Cresswell, Masuaku, Mears all cost north or £1 Million, with Masuaku being the only one north of £5 Million. Ringo and Schemmel was under a Million as was Clarke We have a list as long as my arm of free transfers including exceptionally aged players. We also have had loans like Carl Jenkinson. Then there has been the repurposing of players like Repka, Faubert, Nordveit, Kouyate, 10K, Dailly, Taylor, Antonio into wing and corner backs.

Quite frankly it’s astonishing how little has been invested in transfer frees in a crucial role. But the same can also be said for central midfielders and to an extent strikers. For years we have seemed well able to dip into our pockets for wingers and attacking midfielders.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by e-20 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:34 pm

steps wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:34 am

Will these positions be addressed? Will they ****. More points will go down the toilet and G&S will only have themselves to blame.
The thing that will be even worse than relegation is the knowledge that the only blame that they will acknowledge at all will be the claim that they wrongly listened to others including fans as well as those Managers (that they chose and that they undermined). The theme will be that if only they had listened to their 'mirrors' then they would have achieved all the things they promised and more. And thus we have the final delusion amongst the many we have had to suffer this past decade. I say final but very probably it won't be the last in their time with us.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by mumbles87 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:35 pm

Far too much asset stripping past couple years

Byram , obiang .. kouate would all walk into this team and add some much needed pace

We sold the young ones and kept the old ones!!

Don't get me wrong Haller .. Anderson .. fornels .. all class on their day but you got to give them service

Need someone to play close to Haller to get best of him

Lanzini isn't fit to wear the shirt anymore

He isn't the player he was

Should never have been given a new contract

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by e-20 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 12:42 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:08 am
Of course they're not. When you have owners who know nothing about football, nor how to properly run a football club, what else can you expect? It will always be about plugging gaps and no sooner than you do, another one appears. It's like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
Sulli would be having an argument with himself about the exact best location of those deckchairs even as the stern started to head towards the sky.He probably wouldn't even notice a minute later that he was actually drowning.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Alex77 » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:03 pm

Combination of asset stripping and marketing spin which relies on the marquee signings, which are quoted to death as evidence of ambition and used to conceal said asset stripping has created an unbalanced and thin squad.

Most clubs are set up to play in a way realistic to their budget/ ambitions and players are signed accordingly.

We fall between two stools, not enough quality players in enough positions to be genuine top 6 contenders but too much invested in those few players to build a competent mid table squad or one resilient enough to fight a relegation battle.

For all his faults think Pellegrini's last 4 big signings (Diop, Haller, Anderson and Fornals) will all go on to have good careers at the top level (possibly elsewhere in Europe) and with the right investment around them could have been / could be good signings for West Ham.

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Re: Our players are not good enough

Post by Jedi Al Khalaas » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:11 pm

On the brightside there is a new sponsor for the Womens team :cry:

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