It’s ridiculous isn’t it.Graza wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:45 am I moan about this frequently, even started a thread once... I would like to go to a game just once and not have shouted "****ing move for him" when we have a throw in. It was the same under Pellers, Moyes before, Billic, BFS, Brooking, no chin man, Pardew, Curbishley... The lid goes on, we just don't know what to do. Tell a lie BFS had a system, it was just **** - stand tallest striker 10 yards from throw in, have other player 5 yards behind, throw ball at striker, hope for flick on - it was ineffective but usually at worst moved the ball down the pitch the way we wanted it to go.
West Ham Utd 0-2 Liverpool (29/01/20)
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- Derby Hammer
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
- Beavis Danzig
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
can't say there are many things i like about moyes, but i do find his determination to stick by lanzini admirable, even if his brute force approach to getting some form out of him and leaving him isolated as the sole source of creativity just because it worked last time is doing more harm than good. i'd love to see him making triangles with fornals and anderson, a solid bedrock of rice and the new bloke behind and antonio to stretch the lines up top, but maybe that ship has sailed.
it's an emotional one for me, was my favourite player at WHU for years and seeing him rubbing shoulders with messi, looking like the answer to argentina's midfield and getting ready for a world cup really made me proud that he was west ham, only for one bad twist in a training session leading to the death of his WC dream, a year on the sidelines, not getting a sniff for his country and playing with the kind of confidence that sees him getting boo'd off for a club in relegation form who can't even compete with their opponent on any level.
he was playing like the old lanzini before he got that smallish injury back in autumn, so i have to think it's as much in the head as the body.
glad i wasn't there today to hear him boo'd off. would've found that far more affecting than a routine submission to a top side in first gear.
it's an emotional one for me, was my favourite player at WHU for years and seeing him rubbing shoulders with messi, looking like the answer to argentina's midfield and getting ready for a world cup really made me proud that he was west ham, only for one bad twist in a training session leading to the death of his WC dream, a year on the sidelines, not getting a sniff for his country and playing with the kind of confidence that sees him getting boo'd off for a club in relegation form who can't even compete with their opponent on any level.
he was playing like the old lanzini before he got that smallish injury back in autumn, so i have to think it's as much in the head as the body.
glad i wasn't there today to hear him boo'd off. would've found that far more affecting than a routine submission to a top side in first gear.
Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Not our worst performance, but lets not kid ourselves, Liverpool did not get out of first gear, and did not need to. Noble was poor, and Lanzini even worse. I've always felt that Lanzini was overrated by us, good on his day, but those days were few and far between. However, did we really need to cheer his substitution?
Glad to see a little bit of a protest against GSB in The BML, but disappointed that it was met mostly with apathy. I'll be interested to see the reaction from the fans if we lose against Brighton on Saturday. It will tell us a lot about our club and our fans.
Glad to see a little bit of a protest against GSB in The BML, but disappointed that it was met mostly with apathy. I'll be interested to see the reaction from the fans if we lose against Brighton on Saturday. It will tell us a lot about our club and our fans.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
The defence was pretty much ok, it was one moment that blew it. Then Masuaku and Noble both decided to be idiotic.
I thought Nobes and Haller were the weaker links today, Lanzini actually improved and our fans deserve a slap for the ironic cheers.
I thought Nobes and Haller were the weaker links today, Lanzini actually improved and our fans deserve a slap for the ironic cheers.
Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Just watched the game again in a more relaxed environment, Liverpool were pretty **** but that's all they needed to be, yet another VAR decision goes their way, handball in the build up has been given for far less than that, but it didn't really matter. Lanzini was totally isolated and zero threat which meant Liverpool had all game to just grind out the predictable win. Doubt they've had much easier games all season.
It wasn't that we were 'bad' more that we lack any real quality in so much of our play, it's frankly shocking, 29% possession at home against albeit the EPL champions elect but with them only playing at 80%, sadly that is now just about out level.
We simply must beat our relegation rivals starting with Brighton - those two games late on back to back Norwich and Watford are starting to look huge ... let's hope they don't cone to late, if we put in the same uninspiring showing as yesterday I fear they might.
It wasn't that we were 'bad' more that we lack any real quality in so much of our play, it's frankly shocking, 29% possession at home against albeit the EPL champions elect but with them only playing at 80%, sadly that is now just about out level.
We simply must beat our relegation rivals starting with Brighton - those two games late on back to back Norwich and Watford are starting to look huge ... let's hope they don't cone to late, if we put in the same uninspiring showing as yesterday I fear they might.
Last edited by SEAHammer on Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
- kayahammer
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Nobes had a worse game than Moss. Didn't think that was possible.
Our kid at RB looks like a prospect. After a shaky start he really grew in confidence. Just needs to work on his crossing.
We had chances but didn't take them. They had arguably less chances, but took them.
It felt very much like we'd gone back to BFS days of shut up shop against a bigger team, then go 1- 0 down but continue in the same vain.
I don't normally think we're doomed, but this season I can't see where the points are going to come from.
Our kid at RB looks like a prospect. After a shaky start he really grew in confidence. Just needs to work on his crossing.
We had chances but didn't take them. They had arguably less chances, but took them.
It felt very much like we'd gone back to BFS days of shut up shop against a bigger team, then go 1- 0 down but continue in the same vain.
I don't normally think we're doomed, but this season I can't see where the points are going to come from.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Would love to see Masuaku do a Johnny Spector and move into the middle. I was convinced Moyes played him central towards the end of the Bournemouth game.
Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
I am generally not a fan of defensive football, but with the players available, Moyes got his tactics spot on. With the exception of the Oxlade Chamberlain goal which was a cosmic disaster from Noble, Masuaku and Lanzini, we were very difficult to play against, and created the better chances.
His only real mistake was playing Lanzini, who was truly awful. He cost us the match tonight, He missed at least one gilt edged chance, gave the ball away countless times and should have stopped Oxlade-Chamberlain. He needs to be benched on Saturday,
Noble was also poor, but I think that has a lot to do with what he said on Saturday about being nearly 33 and having to be relied on every match.
Diop’s tackle for the penalty was poor but he was covering for Ngakia who wasn’t great defensively, especially in the first half. the boy’s final delivery was poor, but there is a player in there. Going up against Robertson, Origi and Wijnaldum is a big ask. That being said if we had Kristensen at right back, I don’t think we would have conceded.
I thought Haller was immense, he won a lot in the air, looked well up for it and held the ball up well. I don’t think he gets a lot of credit for runs he makes that are never served, and with a bit of support for him we would have scored.
While we weren’t the better team, this was a match we probably should have won on the balance of chances.
I know it is a huge if, but I think if we had Antonio, Soucek, and a more experienced right back like a Rasmussen Kristensen or even Fredericks, I think we would have won this.
Soucek, Kristensen and a proper forward transform this club.
His only real mistake was playing Lanzini, who was truly awful. He cost us the match tonight, He missed at least one gilt edged chance, gave the ball away countless times and should have stopped Oxlade-Chamberlain. He needs to be benched on Saturday,
Noble was also poor, but I think that has a lot to do with what he said on Saturday about being nearly 33 and having to be relied on every match.
Diop’s tackle for the penalty was poor but he was covering for Ngakia who wasn’t great defensively, especially in the first half. the boy’s final delivery was poor, but there is a player in there. Going up against Robertson, Origi and Wijnaldum is a big ask. That being said if we had Kristensen at right back, I don’t think we would have conceded.
I thought Haller was immense, he won a lot in the air, looked well up for it and held the ball up well. I don’t think he gets a lot of credit for runs he makes that are never served, and with a bit of support for him we would have scored.
While we weren’t the better team, this was a match we probably should have won on the balance of chances.
I know it is a huge if, but I think if we had Antonio, Soucek, and a more experienced right back like a Rasmussen Kristensen or even Fredericks, I think we would have won this.
Soucek, Kristensen and a proper forward transform this club.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
That's part of it, but part of it is also, even at 100% he's just not physically capable of playing with the a lot of sides. It's why moving him to the bench when Soucek comes in is so important. He can have a role as a sub to help hold a lead, or occasional starts against slower clubs (Bournemouth comes to mind) but against any team with pace, or that presses heavily he's just a huge liability.Peaches wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:39 am Noble was also poor, but I think that has a lot to do with what he said on Saturday about being nearly 33 and having to be relied on every match.
Diop’s tackle for the penalty was poor but he was covering for Ngakia who wasn’t great defensively, especially in the first half. the boy’s final delivery was poor, but there is a player in there. Going up against Robertson, Origi and Wijnaldum is a big ask. That being said if we had Kristensen at right back, I don’t think we would have conceded.
I thought Haller was immense, he won a lot in the air, looked well up for it and held the ball up well. I don’t think he gets a lot of credit for runs he
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Lanzini has been poor recently but I think thats a bit harsh on his performance today, if we're thinking of the same chance (his mis-kick into Alissons arms) then Fornals missed a similar chance towards the end of the game, and I think it was a little bit awkward too.
He'd improved a bit on where he was last week, but isn't playing with the ability or confidence he has had previously.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
I have to disagree with this. I've been just as vocal as most regarding Lanzini and his faults this season and even before, but he didn't cost us the match today. If he hadn't have played then Fornals would have played (a player I've called for in recent weeks) but if his substitute appearence is anything to go by then he'd have ended up being even worse than Lanzini. As much as he's improved, I think Lanzini is much more capable of playing through a press.
What cost us the game was having no other defensive midfielder to give Noble a break - he looked knackered, a weak subs bench, and an absence of pace up front (Anderson and Antonio) to give Haller someone to link up with and to give us a chance of stretching Liverpools defence. There's little that Moyes could have done about that.
I personally thought that we looked very organised and for once, the players knew the jobs that were required of them. We frustrated Liverpool for large spells. I haven't looked at the actual stats but Klopp states that we had 4 shots on target to their 5. That's not bad. At the end of the day, they're a side that are unbeaten in 41 and have gone on a 15 match winning streak. We're an under strength, under performing relegation threatened side suffering with low confidence. To say that Liverpool were there for the taking isn't really fair. They're not there for the taking any more than we are and if it looked like that yesterday then it was our tactics and organisation that made it look that way.
Last edited by Burnley Hammer on Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
The paper (Guardian) actually sets the shots on target as 4 each.
For me, the difference last night was that we were playing a team that has a winner's mentality coursing through its veins. If they had any injury concerns, they had the back up in their squad to easily counter this (Origi is inferior to Mane - one of the best strikers in the world - but he would walk into our team).
Firmino got the benefit of the doubt in re the handball thing, but he was onside and he then instinctively played on whilst our players paused, if only for 1/5th of a second. The penalty concession was a pain, but it was the correct call.
Their second was a complete mixture, of high skill (the Salah lay off) and slapstick defending. I don't blame Lanzini for it; he shouldn't really have been the last line of defence and he's got neither the build nor the experience to stop Oxlaide-Chamberlain, who took his goal like the kind of player who wants to impress his coach for a long-term starting position in their midfield
The effort generally was much better, as was the team ethic.
For me, the difference last night was that we were playing a team that has a winner's mentality coursing through its veins. If they had any injury concerns, they had the back up in their squad to easily counter this (Origi is inferior to Mane - one of the best strikers in the world - but he would walk into our team).
Firmino got the benefit of the doubt in re the handball thing, but he was onside and he then instinctively played on whilst our players paused, if only for 1/5th of a second. The penalty concession was a pain, but it was the correct call.
Their second was a complete mixture, of high skill (the Salah lay off) and slapstick defending. I don't blame Lanzini for it; he shouldn't really have been the last line of defence and he's got neither the build nor the experience to stop Oxlaide-Chamberlain, who took his goal like the kind of player who wants to impress his coach for a long-term starting position in their midfield
The effort generally was much better, as was the team ethic.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Not sure why you think that. You got to see Liverpool continue being on a roll and some VAR. Both of those were on the list of reasons to go...
- hammer1975
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Morocco Mole wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:53 pm I happen to think Moyes is wrong about Lanzini but how can anyone criticse him for putting his arm around the bloke and backing him publically. Especially after we cheered him off for FFS. Fella was in tears....he knows his knee’s rooked.
That’s what I mean about Moyes being on a hiding to nothing.....
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
He gave it away a lotCrouchend_Hammer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:03 pm You must have been watching a different game, mate
I don;t think Masuaku gave the ball away at all, and as much as I am not Cresswell's biggest fan he rarely did either
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
You can't even rely on West Ham to take a spanking when they're supposed so.
That's another fiver wasted.
That's another fiver wasted.
- hammer1975
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
Moyes: Lanzini is lacking confidence. When he gets confidence back he’ll be good again.
West Ham fans: play Fornals he’s better. We don’t believe in confidence as excuse for below par performances. It must be because he doesn’t care.
Moyes: Fornals is still bedding in and hasn’t played well last two games.
West Ham fans: it’s confidence because you dropped him you idiot.
West Ham fans: play Fornals he’s better. We don’t believe in confidence as excuse for below par performances. It must be because he doesn’t care.
Moyes: Fornals is still bedding in and hasn’t played well last two games.
West Ham fans: it’s confidence because you dropped him you idiot.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
:lol: :lol: :lol:hammer1975 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:49 am Moyes: Lanzini is lacking confidence. When he gets confidence back he’ll be good again.
West Ham fans: play Fornals he’s better. We don’t believe in confidence as excuse for below par performances. It must be because he doesn’t care.
Moyes: Fornals is still bedding in and hasn’t played well last two games.
West Ham fans: it’s confidence because you dropped him you idiot.
Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
In fairness we'd have had handball given against us by VAR if we'd done what they did, we have infact for less.
On the second Noble seemed to let the ball bounce, then completely lost the ball in the air, walked under it and Salah could believe his luck. It was Ngakia who then committed himself, if he'd just put a solid foul in he'd probably have been booked but score wise we'd have stayed in the game. It was telling that Lanzini was the man who scrambled back to try and get involved in some sort of defense.
I thought it was harsh he got **** as he was coming off but I put that on Moyes. He had a player to replace him with (one of the few on the bench that could have done something, he didn't, but the game was gone when he came on) and Lanzini was getting progressively worse as he tired, he had an OK first half but fell out of the game second half and needed the hook. Moyes' waited 10 minutes too long and the crowd were getting frustrated with him.
Re: West Ham Utd v Liverpool: match thread
In a "hugely unexpected twist" (read predictable and obvious) there isn't much footage of the handball before their pen. Has anyone got a link to it?