Possible Takeover Bid ?

Does exactly what it says on the tin - the forum for football-related discussion.

Moderators: chalks, the pink palermo, -DL-, Gnome, Rio, bristolhammerfc

Post Reply
User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11828
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Aceface » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:36 am

If you take a few things as read:

1) That no-one would build a stadium that was significantly smaller than now (i.e. no going back to a 35k seater).
2) That despite the cockney diaspora to some of the home counties, to relocate the club outside of London would be wrong.
3) That due to point 1 and the size of crowd a new stadium would attract, the location for a new build within London has to be narrowed significantly to areas very close to one and probably multiple tube lines.
4) That any rare large areas of space next to tube lines will be some of the most valuable available in Europe and consequently prohibitively expensive for a football club of our means to purchase.

Then you have to acknowledge that whatever the future holds in terms of stadium configuration or rebirth, it will be happening on that same patch of land in Stratford.

User avatar
wormley
Posts: 1670
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: West Ham United 1895-2016

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by wormley » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:44 am

Greatest Cockney Rip Off wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:14 am
Pie in the sky I know, but if a new purpose-built stadium was to be built, where would it's location be? I can't really think of anywhere in the vicinity that would be suitable.
UP(minster) Park :wink:

It would make sense to flatten the existing stadium and redevelop the land to incorporate a new 40-50k one as part of a large scale residential development. Still be soulless, but at least it would be fit for purpose.

Maybe that's their masterplan after all?

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11828
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Aceface » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:46 am

Wilko1304 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:35 am
I don’t even think it helps the brand that much, really. The image of fan engagement is a big part of it across the world, older stadiums actually add to it.
Ironic isn't it?

Talk about the Boleyn, the legends lining up on the field, and Winston's goal all you like in that final game, but as much a part of that night was the stoning of the Manchester United bus. It's like when pundits say 'nobody wants to see that' when two players have a bit of fisticuffs on the pitch, when everyone secretly loves seeing a bit of that. Those who don't have local links mostly followed West Ham because they liked the rough and tumble image. THAT was our brand. Tower blocks in the background of the East stand.

It's also a bit like Canary Wharf knocking down acres of old warehouses in the 80s to put in the shiny architecture of the future. Now they'd kill to have some of those old warehouses back to give the area a bit of soul, and because commercially that's the type of space that restaurants and offices crave now.

User avatar
Mega Ron
Posts: 9935
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Warp's mum

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Mega Ron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:54 am

They say they can't dig down into the bowl.

But what they should do is dig down as far as necessary and then install seats around that. We could have a 110,000 mega stadium.

User avatar
The Old Man of Storr
Posts: 20728
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:17 am
Location: Lost In the Recesses Of My Mind .

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:55 am

Beavis Danzig wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:41 pm


the council know this, but are losing £30m a year by sticking to the status quo. which brings me to the conclusion i made in my last post that what makes most sense is us to tear up on our contract so the council can sell the land for an absolute fortune to some arab developer, in exchange for financial and legal assistance building our own ground in a more suitable location. we'd still have to put a fair bit of change in, but much less than we would taking care of the absolute dog's dinner in situ right now.
Sounds great in theory .

IF someone were to come along and buy West Ham United tomorrow would the Owners of the London Stadium insist on re-negotiating the rental of the Stadium I wonder - or have GSB screwed down the £2m per annum rental agreement for whoever owns the Club ?

Also , is there anything stopping the Council from developing the land surrounding the stadium today and not involve the tenants ?

Scrapping the rental agreement then hoping the Council agree to share the spoils should someone come along wanting to develop the land sounds riskier than just staying put to me - why would GSB agree to that ?

Another thing - why didn't the stadium owners not just knock down the stadium and sell off the land to a rich Arab developer before getting involved with GSB if it was such a viable option - they could have cut out the middle man ?

Just putting this out there , Danzig - your suggestion does sound great in theory :thup: [ as long as we had a handy bit of land lined up for a new stadium of course ] .

User avatar
fjthegrey
Posts: 19893
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:35 pm
Location: The Accolade Mate

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by fjthegrey » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:58 am

Mega Ron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:54 am
They say they can't dig down into the bowl.
Can't go down? Go up then.

Let's J.G Ballard this mother and turn our stadium into a high rise that can be seen across London's skyline.

User avatar
Mega Ron
Posts: 9935
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Warp's mum

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Mega Ron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:01 am

Now we're thinking outside the bowl.

Not a stadium within a stadium. A stadium withon a stadium.

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11828
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Aceface » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:04 am

I hadn't thought of the implications of the stadium being sold to GSB in terms of the land beneath it before Beavis's post. The flipping opportunity there would make the Boleyn sale look like small fry.

How would it work in practice if the government wanted to offload it? They'd sell the physical stadium to the club but be the leaseholder on the land it sits on? No way would they want the spectacle of Sullivan making billions by flattening the stadium, selling the land and moving us to somewhere else.

User avatar
Mega Ron
Posts: 9935
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Warp's mum

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Mega Ron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:08 am

Aceface wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:04 am
I hadn't thought of the implications of the stadium being sold to GSB in terms of the land beneath it before Beavis's post. The flipping opportunity there would make the Boleyn sale look like small fry.

How would it work in practice if the government wanted to offload it? They'd sell the physical stadium to the club but be the leaseholder on the land it sits on? No way would they want the spectacle of Sullivan making billions by flattening the stadium, selling the land and moving us to somewhere else.
If they didn't want GSB selling it on, or building 5 billion flats there, they add a covenant to it saying exactly that.

User avatar
Graza
Posts: 2140
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Graza » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:10 am

Aceface wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:36 am
If you take a few things as read:

1) That no-one would build a stadium that was significantly smaller than now (i.e. no going back to a 35k seater).
2) That despite the cockney diaspora to some of the home counties, to relocate the club outside of London would be wrong.
3) That due to point 1 and the size of crowd a new stadium would attract, the location for a new build within London has to be narrowed significantly to areas very close to one and probably multiple tube lines.
4) That any rare large areas of space next to tube lines will be some of the most valuable available in Europe and consequently prohibitively expensive for a football club of our means to purchase.

Then you have to acknowledge that whatever the future holds in terms of stadium configuration or rebirth, it will be happening on that same patch of land in Stratford.
1) true, it would be seen as a reduction in expectation. That said if a new stadium was built with 60k but with proper rake and within sight of the pitch no one would be upset.
2/3) Also true. It would need mainline and tube access making Stratford, West Ham, Barking and as an outlier Upminster the only viable areas really. There is also the impact on the local area (see why we will never play at home on Boxing Day ever at Stratford) making it even more difficult.
4) To a point this is true. What happened to the old gas storage containers up by West Ham that were mooted as an option back in the day?

I make you right though, unfucking the stadium and making it fit for purpose is the most realistic option. The problem is that it was never built with that in mind so there is no sensible path to conversion, only expensive and lengthy internal redevelopment. The right answer is to go back in time and convince Coe and Co that it needs to be built properly to be a football stadium most of the time - as many said at the time go and look at the Stade De France that converts to an athletics stadium in hours. Why the f*** we are left with this mess when the obvious solution was staring us in the face... Christ...

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11828
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Aceface » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:13 am

Mega Ron :thup:

SG12FFS
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:09 pm

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by SG12FFS » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:21 am

Seb Coe.....what a ****

User avatar
Mega Ron
Posts: 9935
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:35 pm
Location: Warp's mum

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Mega Ron » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:27 am

Aceface wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:13 am
Mega Ron :thup:
We have a covenant on one of our gardens that says we can't build and run a Dog Kennels on it :lol:

Apparently a real concern of the people that sold the land.

User avatar
Wilko1304
Posts: 3879
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:36 pm
Location: "Once you start complicating things the end result is less inflatables"

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Wilko1304 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:32 am

I still think there’s a possibility of making it a stadium, they’d just have to rip the insides out. I don’t know how difficult or expensive that would be, but must be cheaper than starting again.

The outside is an interesting one. I’m unsure whether it’s laziness or just the problem of modern stadia. Sure Everton will lose soul when they move out of a built up area and away on their own.

I do think they could have got an arrangement where old market traders could have been brought over on weekends on the walk up, that way linking to the Westfield area.

That’s the thing with new owners who really invested. They would make the effort - there’s definitely land around there to build pubs, probably a good way to do something along the river, space for life. It would take mega millions though.

User avatar
Puff Daddy
Gone for a Burton
Posts: 25921
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Westham Way

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Puff Daddy » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:33 am

Graza wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:10 am
1) true, it would be seen as a reduction in expectation. That said if a new stadium was built with 60k but with proper rake and within sight of the pitch no one would be upset.
2/3) Also true. It would need mainline and tube access making Stratford, West Ham, Barking and as an outlier Upminster the only viable areas really. There is also the impact on the local area (see why we will never play at home on Boxing Day ever at Stratford) making it even more difficult.
4) To a point this is true. What happened to the old gas storage containers up by West Ham that were mooted as an option back in the day?

I make you right though, unfucking the stadium and making it fit for purpose is the most realistic option. The problem is that it was never built with that in mind so there is no sensible path to conversion, only expensive and lengthy internal redevelopment. The right answer is to go back in time and convince Coe and Co that it needs to be built properly to be a football stadium most of the time - as many said at the time go and look at the Stade De France that converts to an athletics stadium in hours. Why the **** we are left with this mess when the obvious solution was staring us in the face... Christ...

Because Britain was so desperate to secure the London 2012 Olympic Games, Coe and his bid knew the were onto a winner when he told them, after the games, the stadium would be re-built with the capacity reduced to 25,000 and thus we will leave this athletics legacy in a previously dilapidated and urban run down part of London. Problem, going forward, was with so few athletics meets over the course of the year, the stadium would never pay for itself. So, the feasible option would be to move a football club in to take over its tenancy. The most sensible option would've been to build a stadium with retractable seating and don't ask me why they never did that in the first place

YorksHammer
Posts: 3844
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:03 pm

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by YorksHammer » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:46 am

I think because they never planned for it to be used for anything but athletics, Puff, they didn't see the need for retractable seating. It was massive blunder.

To really improve the stadium in terms of making it football worthy, they need to essentially take the corners out, lessen the curvature of the four main stands, and then squash them together. So instead of a long oval shape, the stadium is instead a squat rounded rectangle.

I can't imagine there is a way to do that without completely dismantling what's already there.

User avatar
Beavis Danzig
Posts: 5224
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:12 pm
Location: 22 Acacia Avenue

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Beavis Danzig » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:57 am

Mega Ron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:08 am
If they didn't want GSB selling it on, or building 5 billion flats there, they add a covenant to it saying exactly that.
that's true, but in doing so they'd be essentially locking up the value of the area. they are essentially building an small town on the other side of the river around hackney wick/fish island in an area not much bigger than the OS and its immediate surrounds, it'd be on a completely different magnitude to what they've done with the patch at upton park and in a far more lucrative area. with the transport links and cash being thrown around they could build a whole new canary wharf there if they desired, there isn't another opportunity like that in london.

as a mid-table (or potentially championship) football club occupying that area paying a peppercorn rent we are effectively squatting and it suits nobody. new owners would represent the chance to write it off as a failure and while i acknowledge the logistical nightmare of relocating us, while we might think we're the ultimate beneficiaries it would be the council who would stand to benefit the most, which is what would give me a flicker of optimism.

what i will say is that a 60k stadium with high rakes could fit into an area with half the footprint of the OS, letalone the surrounding area it spills out into.

Online
User avatar
aaronhammer
Posts: 9374
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: The Kitman

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by aaronhammer » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:00 am

I know it's completely different but I always think about how the Millennium Domewas transformed to the o2. Surely something similar could happen with the London Stadium with the right investment. Build permanent stands near to the pitch and have covered concourses (potentially more corporate offerings too). The biggest issue would be the roof which wouldn't cover all the seats in the lower tiers.

User avatar
Wembley1966
Posts: 6250
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:48 pm

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Wembley1966 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:01 am

Aceface wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:04 am
I hadn't thought of the implications of the stadium being sold to GSB in terms of the land beneath it before Beavis's post. The flipping opportunity there would make the Boleyn sale look like small fry.

How would it work in practice if the government wanted to offload it? They'd sell the physical stadium to the club but be the leaseholder on the land it sits on? No way would they want the spectacle of Sullivan making billions by flattening the stadium, selling the land and moving us to somewhere else.
LLDC own the land that the stadium sits on. They lease it to E20 for which there is a 102 year lease agreement until 1 September 2115. They are charged an annual rent of £4,900 with all the 102 years rent being paid up front for a fee of £0.5m.

They would probably love Sullivan to make billions on it as the percentage share they would get from any subsequent sale would dwarf anything they would get from Gold and Sullivan simply selling the club.

User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 11828
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty

Re: Possible Takeover Bid ?

Post by Aceface » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:02 am

Mega Ron wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:27 am
We have a covenant on one of our gardens that says we can't build and run a Dog Kennels on it :lol:

Apparently a real concern of the people that sold the land.
In some cultures, being suspected of being involved with an underground dog-fighting ring is considered a compliment. Probably.

Post Reply