Summer 2023/24 Transfer Thread

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Summer 2023/24 Transfer Thread

Post by Wilko1304 »

Well, not only have we gone and got bad again, but it looks like we have a squad that still needs a rebuild. After doing it one summer, things have turned a bit sour, so we're either continuing the rebuild or doing another. Either way, we have a range of players getting into their 30s, and late 30s, a few whose contracts run out at the end of this or next season.

And whilst that is what we discussed on the KUMB West Ham United Podcast this week, we looked at whether we should change the recruitment style, how we use the money, what places need bigger fees and how we bring home grown talent in. Some will be things like "Michael Keane, English, free, worth a back up slot" as we felt you can be smart with quotas for cheaper slots.

Listen here on Spotify https://t.co/y74WfPoCsk or here on Apple https://t.co/7BgKTNgD0Z

GKs: Fabianski, Areola, Randolph (HG)
CBs: Aguerd, Zouma, Kehrer, Luizao, Ogbonna
FBs: Cresswell (HG), Emerson, Coufal, Johnson (HG)
MF: Rice (HG), Soucek, Paqueta, Downes (HG), Lanzini, Coventry (HG), Fornals
Attackers: Benrahma, Cornet, Bowen (HG), Scamacca, Ings (HG), Antonio (HG)

Couldn't be bothered to put a lot of effort into contract dates, but found the following:
Out of contract at the end of the season: Ogbonna, Lanzini, Coventry, Randolph, Cresswell
Out of contract at the end of next season: Oko-Flex, Johnson, Fabianski, Soucek

That's the 24 we have currently, no youth players included, and quite a few of those are at the point of their careers where they have to be registered next season. You will need to make decisions on the 21s, need to adhere to a maximum of 17 players who were not trained in England between 15-21. I won't bother with European quotas. So, really, you probably need 8 British players.

You'll want to think of the blend, some will prefer more older, British pros, some might look to throw the bigger money at young English players like Gallagher, etc.

So, the challenge is to build next year's squad. Realistic spends only, I would say you can give yourself £80m for Rice and another 50-60, on top. If you're selling players, go to the lower end of their expected value. It’s not particularly important who you buy, but where you would spend the money and on what type of player (starter, squad, home-grown, a position you’d try fill for free) to see what priorities are and how to balance it with need.

Here are some OOC players across the world: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/statist ... evertraege

Feel free to note which players you'd send on loan, things like that. I think we chose to send Luizao and Longelo out
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by kenthammer »

Think Bereton Diaz at 23 would be a good signing but read he's off to Villareal
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Macca1973 »

When I starting reading (HG) by Cresswell and Randolph I actually thought it meant (Hopefully Gone)!
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by YorksHammer »

Said it on the transfer thread, but I'm signing Jacob Greaves from Hull (LB/LCB, 22 years old, English, €8m value on transfermarkt) and Jamea Bree from Luton (RB/RCB, 25 years old, English, €3m value on transfermarkt) to replace Cresswell and Coufal.

We're probably fine for frontline CBs in Zouma and Aguerd, with Kehrer as an option there, adding those two then gives us an extra option on each side and would allow for us to go three (using Emerson and Bree as wing backs while Greaves moved into central defence).

Central midfield I'm pulling out all the stops to keep Rice for one more season if he is happy to. I'd add Ben Sheaf from Coventry (CM/DM, 24 years old, English, €2.5m value on transfermarkt). If I can't keep Rice, I'm making a move for a Premier League experienced CM/DM, preferably homegrown, to replace - Scott McTominay is the first name that come to mind for me, with a €30m value on transfermarkt and looking out of favour at Man United currently.

We have some very good attacking midfielders right now, with our main issues being the lack of a true challenger to Bowen on the right wing, and the injury to Cornet. Sorba Thomas (RW, 23 years old, Welsh, €5m value on transfermarkt) has looked good and direct at Huudersfield, and used to be with us as a youth so might be attracted to a move as well. A potentially risky move could be for Jack Clarke at Sunderland (LW, 22 years old, English, €4m value on transfermarkt), who moved to Spurs from Leeds and then never really got a sniff of a chance at the Premier League level. Can he cut it on a second chance? His Championship form has been decent this season. Both he and Thomas have also been used as very attack minded wing backs on both sides, so that three at the back option becomes viable in a different way than I referenced above.

Leading the line I'm sticking with Scamacca as our main striker, and if Ings does sign he'll be about as well. One potential other option here is Iliman Ndiaye at Sheffield United (AM/CF, 22 years old, Senegalese but I believe homegrown through moving to Boreham Wood at 15/16, €7m value on transfermarkt) to bring in as a player to develop and have some flexibility between CAM and CF.

So, if I've got this right, for 23/24 I'd have:

GKs: Areola, Fabianski,
CBs: Aguerd, Zouma, Kehrer, Luizao
FBs: Emerson, Johnson (HG), Bree (HG), Greaves (HG)
MF: Rice/McTominay (HG), Soucek, Paqueta, Downes (HG), Fornals, Sheaf (HG)
Attackers: Benrahma, Cornet, Bowen (HG), Scamacca, Ings (HG), Antonio (HG), Clarke (HG), Thomas (HG), Ndiaye (HG)

25 players with quite a bit of flexibility - we do look a little short at CB now I've written it down, and the idea of signing Rob Atkinson at Bristol City (CB, 24 years old, English, €2.5m value on transfermarkt) crosses my mind to add someone with more experience with Luizao there. Does Luizao count as overage next season, or is he young enough to be U21? If Antonio leaves we'd have a squad place that could be used for Atkinson anyway.

Totting that up, it's €30m in value from transfermarkt without selling Rice and signing McTominay. Given I have no idea how transfermarkt works out it's values, even at double the values per player it should fall in that £50-60m bracket. My main aim was to get younger homegrown players in with, as a minimum, a good season of Championship experience - a model we've used at points in time to good success, but one that also builds us a team going forward.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

I guess Ings helps, but with any/all of Randolph, Cresswell, Johnson, Dawson, Rice, Coventry, and Antonio all with question marks against them - arguably Bowen and Downes too - feel like we've sleepwalked into a crisis point with the homegrown players situation.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:03 am I guess Ings helps, but with any/all of Randolph, Cresswell, Johnson, Dawson, Rice, Coventry, and Antonio all with question marks against them - arguably Bowen and Downes too - feel like we've sleepwalked into a crisis point with the homegrown players situation.
I can see us holding on to Cresswell, Johnson, Bowen and Downes, whilst adding Ings, Longelo and Okoflex to fill HG spots.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by hammerman11 »

randolph ogbonna will leave after their contracts are up. cresswell will get another year as he is still good enough to provide cover to a new LB .
dawson antonio will have gone but hopefully replaced in this window
can see maybe coufal and soucek leaving
rice going will leave a big hole to fill for sure

basically we will need another 6-8 players in. no succession planning for years has come to a head
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by bubbles1966 »

Between now and the end of the summer - assuming we're still in the PL;

Moves

GK - Randolph >>>>> young early/mid 20s keeper for 3rd choice, expected to be 2nd choice the following year;
LB - Cresswell >>>>> a starter
CB - Dawson >>>>> similar, experienced 3rd/4th choice - homegrown, 27-30
CB - Ogbonna >>>>> young, left sided CB , early 20s
CM - Coventry >>>>> a starter and partner for Rice assuming hes still here.
AM - one of Manu/Pablo/Paq/Benrahma >>>>> Sarr.
CF - Antonio >>>>> Ings

If we got Sarr and Ings, I imagine only two major signings in the summer - a first choice left back and a first choice CM. The others would be challengers/back-ups. Ideally, one of these players will have pedigree as a leader/captain.

It would be a much quieter summer but I think Chelsea might be very profitable and easy pickings and i'd be tempted to revisit one or two of last summers prime targets if Paqueta and Scamacca's form doesn't improve. Holding players for too long will kill their value.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Wilko1304 »

Yorks, that's incredible :clap: I think my only fear is a lack of (almost) guaranteed initial quality.

Jack has got me onto thinking about tactical flexibility. We need more players who can play a few systems, rather than having a couple of systems we like to play and players who are only useful on that day (Emerson comes to mind - whether you like him or not, thats what hes been).

I would aim as 4-3-3 as the goal, but capable of playing 3-4-3 and 4-2-3-1

I would loan out Luizao and Longelo. I would try sell Emerson, but also be looking to loan him out, too. He's clearly game, he loved a bit of a loan at Chelsea. And that means I'm keeping Cress, who gives us some continuity due to his longevity, a good character, older British pro and, importantly, can play LB and LCB.

I like the idea of both Bree and Greaves. Wouldn't mind them in, which gives us long term full back and centre back options. I would also follow Tosin Adarabioyo and Mohammed Salisu. If we want more solid, immediate quality, Szalai and Ndicka could both be available. However, I think it makes sense for our backups to be home-grown, where possible, and young.

Coufal goes, Johnson stays. I am enjoying Coufal's return to form, but his departure is just being delayed. Think it's fair to him to get first team football and us move on to a faster, more progressive player. I am sloppy on full backs, but I liked Bensebaini, AWB, wouldnt be against Bellerin (contract expires 2023), Diogo Dalot, Luke Shaw. I think all those - barring AWB - have wing back potential. I would also look at wingers who could cope with it.

In midfield, Lanzini goes, Rice goes, Coventry goes. I would love us to replace Rice with Tyler Adams. Amrabat will be available, and the shine might have worn off. Could be. I would also say Shkiri, who we appear to have tracked before, would be a great shout. I'd take a look at Billings and Tom Davies as back-ups. If we are spending big, Ndidi might move this summer with a year on his contract. Sander Berge also a good option. I would be open to some wheeling and dealing here, Soucek being somewhat expendable.

Chelsea will be selling, and I hold an interest in Loftus-Cheek, Conor Gallagher and Callum Hudson-Odoi. They have a good range of young players, too. Hall and Chuk would both interest. Broja, if recovered, may be worth a go now we'd have 3 strikers.

Jack and Cal both mentioned Reiss Nelson, who I think is a good gamble. If the club have identified Moffi as a talent, having also looked at Gyokeres, it's hard to know if I want 2 of Broja, Moffi and Gyokeres or one. Ideally, we find a winger who can play up front, like Cornet, to compete for Cornet's place.

My spree ends with Brennan Johnson, and with an idea to see what money Benrahma might fetch.

Leaving us with
GKs: Areola, Fab, Trott (HG)
FBs: STARTING LB (Bensebaini), STARTING RB (AWB), Cresswell (HG), Johnson (HG),
CBs: Aguerd, Zouma, NEW BACKUP CB (Greaves) (HG), NEW BACKUP CB (Adarabioyo) (HG), Kehrer
CMs: Soucek, Paqueta, Downes (HG), Adams, Gallagher, Fornals
AMs/Wingers: Cornet, Bowen (HG), Johnson (HG), Reiss Nelson (HG)
STs: Scamacca, Ings (HG), Younger, cheaper striker (Gyokeres/Moffi)

Biggest problem being I can't see that being less than about a £170m spend, and with £80m from Rice, I've gone way over budget. I would be tempted to see who I could get on loan in midfield instead of buying Gallagher.

I've put HG next to players I would definitely keep and next to players where I think their role should be filled by a HG talent, rather than a foreign one. If we got Brennan, I'd fund it by selling Benrahma. Soucek could go and be replaced by a loan like Loftus-Cheek or McTom.

Average age well down, some good continuity with Fornals, Cress, Fab, Bowen and a lot more pace!

Which means saying bye to Coufal, Lanzini, Emerson, Dawson, Ogbonna, Randolph, Antonio, Coventry (not that I am eager to chuck him), Rice, Benrahma. That's sizeable, but I would also (unless something spectacular happens) be bringing in a coach who would find better and more creative attacking solutions. Rodgers is the kind of name I could see being acceptable, not that I like him. Potter is the dream, which would also be true (for me) of Sarri
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by alf git »

Summer transfer thread by another name 🤪
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Colne Dynamo »

It's hard to tell at this stage what kind of rebuild we'll need in the summer - although I think it goes without saying that the full-back positions need looking at. Other than that, it remains to be seen what happens between now and the end of the season. Will Fornals and Bowen find form? Will Cornet ever return?

Next season is when we'll see the best of this seasons new signings... I think patience is still needed with them at present, especially with the low confidence and the pressure that's been running through the team.

Overall, I think we need to be adding pace and athleticism to the squad, especially in midfield and especially when Rice leaves. I think we also need to be looking at bringing in some real leaders. Captain material. Doesn't mean we actually have to make them captain but it helps a lot when you have players out there taking responsibility, motivating team-mates, and leading by example.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by westlondonhammer »

I think Burnley has hit the nail on the head...most pressing is the need for a proper captain / leader in the dressing room... that will make the biggest difference

Otherwise it is quite hard to tell... being in Europe and the games with it will be a big factor. Moyes still being gaffer will be a big factor. If he is, i can imagine less players will be bought in with no Prem experience and more experienced campaigners bought in.

The Bournemouth left back will be the start I'd say (now experienced, HG, out of contract). I wouldnt be surprised of someone completely out of the blue like Henderson if Liverpool make big changes. Chelsea (Broja, Gallagher) will be looked at...

Then again i didnt guess most of our summer signings so hard to assess.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Wilko1304 »

Zemura at Bournemouth does seem to have been linked across a few windows.

Looking at relegation-threatened clubs, there’s always talent:

Southampton: Walker-Peters, Salisu, Livramento, Ward-Prowse and Lavia
Everton: Onana, DCL, Iwobi, Gray, Pickford, Gordon
Bournemouth: Zemura, Kelly, Senesi
Forest: Johnson, Lodi (not theirs anyway), Williams, Lingard…
Leeds: Tyler Adams is my prime midfield target, and actually quite a lot of their squad seem decent players. I really think Bamford could thrive with our players, but his body doesn’t seem to hold up.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting »

GK: Areola, Fabianski, Signing
CB: Aguerd, Zouma, Signing, Kehrer, Luizao
FB/WB: Signing, Signing, Emerson, Coufal, Alese/Longelo
MF: Signing, Paqueta, Soucek, Fornals, Downes
FW: Scamacca, Ings, Bowen, Benrahma, Cornet, Signing


GK: Don't care. British, healthy, content with playing a league cup game and putting out cones. Jack Butland is out of contract. (The bigger job is convincing Fab not to retire and back up Titi for a year).

CB: I've been sold on Harry Souttar but looks like we'll miss him. Who have Celtic for that isn't Carter-Vickers? Postecoglu wants good passers and they'll be used to playing a really high line.

FB/WB: I'm spending almost all of the non-Rice budget in this thought experiment on these two. They are both fast and under 25. Don't mind if one is a big risk as I'm OK with Emerson/Coufal partnering the one that isn't. Also keep one of Alese/Longelo with the squad as well.

CM: Make a big play for Sangare for PSV or someone with a similar profile, 6 weeks later sign McTominay in a moment of desperation. Just realised I'm short on numbers so also have a look at this Hayden Hackney lad that Carrick has found down the back of a sofa at Boro's training ground.

FW: For once, let's try not to do any major surgery here and see if a little stability can work. Only thing I would be looking to do is bring in someone that can really lift the pace of a game off the bench. Be that a permanent signing or a loan from a CL club.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by YorksHammer »

Dan Bentley was always tipped to be a top Goalkeeper, has ended up being a solid Championship keeper at Bristol City. Still only 29.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by the pink palermo »

alf git wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:33 pm Summer transfer thread by another name 🤪
No, not really.

This thread is discussing who posters would like, sensible suggestions, to rebuild the squad, not players with whom we are linked ( though in time we may be), or with whom there is a transfer rumour from a credible itk source.

Two discrete discussions. and I have to say 3 or 4 top drawer jobs by a few posters. :newthumb:
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by westlondonhammer »

I wouldnt be surprised to see Ogbonna kept if he keeps up performances like yesterday

Also, Fabianski to start next season as number 1 again? I wouldnt bet against it
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Hermit_Road »

Is this what you mean?

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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Colne Dynamo »

After giving it some thought, I think I'd like to bring in...

A solid centre-back - I'm not at all confident in the ability of Zouma and Ogbonna to stay fit for very long. This may be sorted during this January window

A right-back and a left-back. Athletic, decent defensively, and very comfortable on the ball. Must be able to deliver a quality ball into the box

Two midfielders to replace Rice and Lanzini

A quality wide forward to give Benrahma and Bowen some proper competition

An athletic pacy striker to replace Antonio

After a full season of settling in, I think we'll see much better from this seasons new signings.
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Re: Summer Rebuild 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Sloop John B »

I'd assume Rice will be off and so I'd spend a fair old chunk on James Ward-Prowse.

Can pass, can tackle, good injury record, scores goals and great set pieces and Captain potential. At a club that could be looking to sell and not quite good enough to attract interest from the money merchant top 6/7. A 5 year deal on top wages could see him out his career!

Is Ward-Prowse worth 40-50million quid - maybe not!

Is it worth spending 40-50million of the Rice money on a player that can slide right into the side with no adjustment time - absolutely,
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