#62 England 1-2 Croatia - Semi-Final 2

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nickkarkie
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by nickkarkie »

swash wrote:
That's called humour, not arrogance
Ah I'm getting it now, so nobody in England believed they would win, they all thought Croatia were the better team all along and the positivity was just our way of getting behind the players.

We're gonna win the Euros and next World Cup :scarfer:
Humbug
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Humbug »

If Southgate remains our manager for the next WC , he needs to be able to easily drop and replace several players between consecutive games while still maintaining cohesion within the team. The intensity and effort required to play several games in such few days is too much to handle. We need to use the whole squad effectively next time to win this tournament.
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swash
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by swash »

Now you're going off in a different direction, since when does believing you can win something, constitute arrogance?

If I say, I believe West Ham can win the FA Cup this season, and start chanting we're going to Wembley at a cup tie, am I being arrogant?

Deluded maybe, but not arrogant
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Patito
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Patito »

nickkarkie wrote: Ah I'm getting it now, so nobody in England believed they would win, they all thought Croatia were the better team all along and the positivity was just our way of getting behind the players.
Ah I'm getting it now you have to predict your team is going to get spanked every match otherwise you're just plain arrogant.

We're not even gonna qualify for the Euros and next World Cup :scarfer:
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Patito
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Patito »

e17 wrote: A decent overall analysis there.

On the above part: I think if Southgate made one glaring omission at all, it was in taking far too many strikers (Welbeck, Rashford, Vardy AND Loftus-Cheek could have been 2 out of 4), and not enough midfield options.

The combo you named was a part of the brilliant unpredictability of it all for me. For short bursts they played some of THE best football of the entire tournament, but it was all driven by confidence of momentum and possession. Against Croatia that sadly ran out.

Lallana and Barkley would have gone for me over Welbeck and Loftus-Cheek, purely as options. We were left with Dier as the only real midfield alternative in the end.

But the bloke got us to the Semi Final of the World Cup, so that'll do :wink:

Loftus-Cheek is a central midfielder e17 :thup:
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by bobcar »

nickkarkie wrote: Ah I'm getting it now, so nobody in England believed they would win, they all thought Croatia were the better team all along and the positivity was just our way of getting behind the players.

We're gonna win the Euros and next World Cup :scarfer:
You're being ridiculous. Believing your team can win is not arrogance, if it is most of the fans of all countries at the World Cup are arrogant.
nickkarkie
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by nickkarkie »

swash wrote:Now you're going off in a different direction, since when does believing you can win something, constitute arrogance?

If I say, I believe West Ham can win the FA Cup this season, and start chanting we're going to Wembley at a cup tie, am I being arrogant?

Deluded maybe, but not arrogant
I think you need to read my posts again, I have not used the word arrogant to describe England fans or players, delusion I have.

In my opinion we have one player who is on the verge of world class and I never thought I would say it about that player, it's Henderson, absolute beast, first to every ball, an athlete, improved his passing dramatically. We had a few square pegs in round holes, sterling up top, young on the left and walker at centre back (he played really well but is not a centre back)
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Patito
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Patito »

nickkarkie wrote: I think you need to read my posts again, I have not used the word arrogant to describe England fans or players, delusion I have.

You quoted and responded to a post with "arrogance" in it.
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by e17 »

Patito wrote:Loftus-Cheek is a central midfielder e17 :thup:
Yeah, I should have said "variation of midfielders" rather than midfielders and strikers - It didn't feel to me like he or most of that combo were anything other than "fast attacking alternatives" - if that makes sense Patito

In truth, it's the one area we need more of anyway - I mentioned Lallana and Barkley purely because I genuinely struggle to think of alternatives who'd have not just been "better versions of Antonio"
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by nickkarkie »

Yea exactly, you just said it yourself, I responded to a post, at no point have I used the word arrogance, Europeans think we are arrogant, they are wrong, we are a bit deluded as we saw with the Tunisia match thread where anyone who saw the shortcomings was criticised.
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by S-H »

I'm Hungover, I'm tired, I'm really gutted for the team, but above all else I'm extremely proud of Gareth and the boys, for their efforts, for giving us one of the best summers in decades, but most of all for giving us our England back!

Thank you.


:thup:
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The Old Man of Storr
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

e17 wrote:Bit weird how many have waited until this defeat to start posting their Gary Neville style breakdowns of England’s efforts.

should have joined in during the tournament chaps, it’s been fun on here.

Well , it was always going to happen once England went out I suppose - I'm not including Nickarkie in this by the way , I think he has a valid point but I think this ' Football's Coming Home ' stuff is mostly media driven anyway , there's nothing wrong in being a happy and passionate England Supporter , good on them I say . :thup:

Every Non-English poster [ including myself ] has only had good and positive words for the England campaign , I made my views clear from the beginning that I was going to support England , maybe not as passionate as you Die-Hards but at least polite and supportive - Ageing Hammer , Paddy et al have all joined in the good wishes , a few posters could learn a thing from us non -English .

Now England are out - but you did your best and made the country a better place to be in for a month at least . You should re-group , introduce a few new faces gradually , I'd suggest Wilshere and Barkley but everyone will have their own choices , keep the momentum going , play a few friendlies and build a squad for the European Championships .
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Hammer1972 »

You're not doing yourself any favour here Nick.

Say you're an England fan, but if you are you're a pretty self loathing one.

For the last time, we hoped, we wanted, but I don't know a single person who had an arrogant belief it was our trophy. We sang 'it's coming home' because it's a great song with great memories and we were simply enjoying a tournament that most of us had written off before it had begun. If that offends other countries, quite frankly I couldn't care less.

Seems like many on here were along for the ride while it was going well, but as soon as we lose can't wait to list all the things that are wrong with England and the English fans.
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Patito
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Patito »

nickkarkie wrote:Yea exactly, you just said it yourself, I responded to a post, at no point have I used the word arrogance, Europeans think we are arrogant, they are wrong, we are a bit deluded as we saw with the Tunisia match thread where anyone who saw the shortcomings was criticised.

You should have just said that Image
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by kenthammer1984 »

i have been a big fan of the "love train" - hoping we can adopt that this season.
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Patito
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Patito »

e17 wrote: Yeah, I should have said "variation of midfielders" rather than midfielders and strikers - It didn't feel to me like he or most of that combo were anything other than "fast attacking alternatives" - if that makes sense Patito

In truth, it's the one area we need more of anyway - I mentioned Lallana and Barkley purely because I genuinely struggle to think of alternatives who'd have not just been "better versions of Antonio"

It very much makes sense. :thup:

Welbeck would have been the one I'd have left behind, he does a lot of running but I just feel his quality in the final third is poor, seems we didn't need him either he only got a few minutes.

Lallana is the one I'd have thought about bringing. He was crucial during the qualifying games, I think he returned to fitness just a bit too late for Southgate.
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by uptonparkhurst »

I think Croatia's 1st goal was a high boot. You can bet it would have been disallowed if the roles were reversed.

Sour grapes? Too right - I hope Croatia get stuffed in the final
(even though I dislike accordions,Henri,Jacques Tati,Platini - you get the picture)
nickkarkie
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by nickkarkie »

Hammer1972 wrote:You're not doing yourself any favour here Nick.

Say you're an England fan, but if you are you're a pretty self loathing one.

For the last time, we hoped, we wanted, but I don't know a single person who had an arrogant belief it was our trophy. We sang 'it's coming home' because it's a great song with great memories and we were simply enjoying a tournament that most of us had written off before it had begun. If that offends other countries, quite frankly I couldn't care less.

Seems like many on here were along for the ride while it was going well, but as soon as we lose can't wait to list all the things that are wrong with England and the English fans.
I don't have opinions about things to carry favour with anyone, hence why I don't really post here much anymore as my opinions on football differ a lot from lost and tends to cause an argument when I post.

I am definitely not self-loathing either, I am just a realist and I like to solve problems rather than gloss over them, it has stood me in good stead in my life making my own businesses and being able to retire at 38.

For me , sterling wouldn't be anywhere near the first team until he learns to control and kick the ball properly, a basic for a professional footballer if you ask me, Pickford has better control and kicking than sterling.
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Hammer1972
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by Hammer1972 »

nickkarkie wrote: I am just a realist and I like to solve problems rather than gloss over them, it has stood me in good stead in my life making my own businesses and being able to retire at 38.
Not sure why you thought it was relevant to drop that in, but tells me plenty...
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Re: #62 England v Croatia - Semi-Final 2 ~ Match thread

Post by nickkarkie »

Because I don't make excuses, that's the point, if I see an issue then I solve it, everyone always justifies failings, an attitude I really don't understand, see so many people unhappy in their life and doing nothing about it, I guess I apply my wacky theories on life across everything, from mental health to sport, I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm probably not the type of person that should be on a forum and was probably a good decision I made to watch from afar.
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