Beckham quits..

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sirtrevor
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Re: Beckham quits..

Post by sirtrevor »

Rocketron wrote:..as England Captain.
Am I being a bit angry here but as far as I am aware no one makes themselves captain and as a result no one can then decide to resign. I thought that was the managers decision? I think he's been a great ambasador for English football but as a leader on the pitch he has too often gone missing in big games when someone has needed to take control. One game (Greece- 5 years ago?) does not a captain make. Bring on Terry or even Gerrard. We need a captain the big stars will follow.
England played as a team of "stars" during the world cup. Look how much the current West Ham players will chase and harry for each other. You can see that in the Germans too. Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham were waiting for each other to turn in the big game. None of them wanted the ball, none of them took the game by the scruff of it's neck. Only Hargreaves ran his socks off each game.
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Post by The Gibbins »

WCpete wrote:I have to say, I thought his display of crying on the bench for a halfhour after he left the match was shameful. It was mid match and he was still ostensibly the 'leader' of the team. be upset for a minute, but then lead, don't snivel like a 2 year old. What the hell kind of message is that sending to your team, not to mention supporters? I was very disappointed with that display.
I think thats b*llocks! He went off and was upset as he couldnt contribute to maybe the biggest game of his career. However he didnt sit there crying for half an hour, he was up cheering the boys along, if anything blame sven as it looked as if beckham was up giving the boys a talk in extra time.
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Post by PaulTheHammer »

THE GIBBINS wrote: I think thats b*llocks! He went off and was upset as he couldnt contribute to maybe the biggest game of his career. However he didnt sit there crying for half an hour, he was up cheering the boys along, if anything blame sven as it looked as if beckham was up giving the boys a talk in extra time.
Looks like we agree again mate. I want to see what WCpete says in response to my Reo Coker similarity.
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Post by WCpete »

Ignore. Computer hiccup.
Last edited by WCpete on Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by WCpete »

[ditto. ignore
Last edited by WCpete on Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by WCpete »

PaulTheHammer wrote:All these people slating Beckham really do need to get a grip on themselves. The guy was crying because he was GUTTED he couldn't contribute to England's biggest game to date. Please tell me what you would think if Reo-Coker had gotten injured and couldn't play a part in a massive game for us, yet was so desperate to play, he got upset too? Would you feel the same then? I bet you wouldn't.

If you want to cite someone who has done nothing for the team, go after Lampard. Beckham has done all he can for his team and doesn't deserve the petty jealousy and witch hunting that is done by the public and media.
If NRC were the captain, and had sustained a potentially serious injury, and then proceeded to blubber for the remainder of the match, I'd say exactly the same thing, and I would add that I would not want him as the West Ham captain. I get being gutted. I get that it's a very traumatizing emotional moment, and I get expressing that emotion. BUT, you need to get over it asap and retake your position of leadership. Moping and snivelling the remainder of the match, to me is a selfish way to behave. The match was very much in the balance, completely left to be won, and it looked to me like he had either given up, or was displaying an incredible amount of self centered pity, or both. Neither of those things are the traits you want your World Cup quartefinal do or die captain to possess. I very much doubt you would have seen Zidane behave that way. So, no, I do not agree with you, nor will I, and frankly it shouldn't matter to you because it's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.

Also, I did not cite Becks as someone who has done nothing for the team. By and large he has served his country admirably as captain over the years, even if his play has occasionally left something to be desired. But, it only takes one such moment to lose the confidence of your players, and if I were one of his team mates I would have been non-plussed with his behavior. I'm glad he stepped down.
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Post by loveboatcaptain »

WCpete wrote:I have to say, I thought his display of crying on the bench for a halfhour after he left the match was shameful. It was mid match and he was still ostensibly the 'leader' of the team. be upset for a minute, but then lead, don't snivel like a 2 year old. What the hell kind of message is that sending to your team, not to mention supporters? I was very disappointed with that display.
How is he meant to lead from the bench? He's not the manager or coach, he's not allowed in the technical area. He's not allowed to shout instructions. In other words, he can't do anything. Which is why he was crying.
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Post by WCpete »

loveboatcaptain wrote: How is he meant to lead from the bench? He's not the manager or coach, he's not allowed in the technical area. He's not allowed to shout instructions. In other words, he can't do anything. Which is why he was crying.
A leader leads by his presence, by being resolute, by being silently strong. He need not shout instructions, or coach or manage. A leader does not look and act defeated even if he isn't technically in the fight anymore.
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Post by The Gibbins »

i dont think beckham did anything wrong at all. I think its another case of everyone blaming beckham as we lost. Hes been used as a scapegoat way too many times.
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Post by WCpete »

THE GIBBINS wrote:i dont think beckham did anything wrong at all. I think its another case of everyone blaming beckham as we lost. Hes been used as a scapegoat way too many times.
I agree that we disagree, however you're projecting with the rest of your statement. I don't blame Beckham for the loss, and I'm not scapegoating him. He didn't do his job, which happens to be an important job. He contributed to the loss. There was plenty of blame to go around yesterday and for the whole Cup. No, I place the blame for this Cup squarely on Sven's shoulders. Sven handicapped his squad long before the World Cup began. His decisions were so ill thought that it's almost like he did it on purpose. He left his team with very little chance to succeed, and they in turn provided very little success. I hope that McClaren has the good sense to distance himself from all things Sven. And frankly, if I were Sven, I wouldn't even fly back to London to pack up my things. I'd fly to Switzerland and apply for asylum.
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Post by loveboatcaptain »

WCpete wrote: A leader leads by his presence, by being resolute, by being silently strong. He need not shout instructions, or coach or manage. A leader does not look and act defeated even if he isn't technically in the fight anymore.
What a stupid thing to say. Its not a war mate, its a game of football. Again, what presence can he have from behind the dugout? I'm willing to bet that no england player even noticed him crying? Plus did you see him before the penalties wishing everyone luck? Bellend.
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Post by Romford »

loveboatcaptain wrote: What a stupid thing to say. Its not a war mate, its a game of football. Again, what presence can he have from behind the dugout? I'm willing to bet that no england player even noticed him crying? Plus did you see him before the penalties wishing everyone luck? Bellend.
Although I for once agree with your thoughts...thats not the right way to put it across, especially on a yellow card. Wont tell you again.

I'm more annoyed at the fact that some Goon younster was taken and was NEVER going to be played.

WHY ?????

Because he was a Goon and nothing else. If anything shows you what hold Arsenal Football Club has over the FA this does.

This made us play this system as we run out of strikers and this is what cost us the World Cup.
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Post by WCpete »

loveboatcaptain wrote: What a stupid thing to say. Its not a war mate, its a game of football. Again, what presence can he have from behind the dugout? I'm willing to bet that no england player even noticed him crying? Plus did you see him before the penalties wishing everyone luck? Bellend.
It's hardly a stupid thing to say. If in fact this was the most important moment of this man's professional life, them I'm not overstating my point. What's stupid about being a strong presence for your team in moments of distress in arguably the most important moment in your collective teams' professional lives?
You think what you want, and I'll think what I want. I'm not looking to change your mind. I'm expressing my opinion, which is what a forum is for. I know I would not want my captain behaving that way, and I would tell him so. In fact I have. And yeah, I saw him passing out water bottles before the penalties. Indeed very commendable.
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Post by PaulTheHammer »

To me this smacks of the message "Grown men don't cry".

I completely and utterly disagree with you. I want to see players who give a damn to be honest and there were a few this World Cup who I felt casually strolled their way through. Rooney made a mistake in his sending off, a big one BUT he is a player that cares about the shirt he is wearing. Everything he does, is passionate and for a cause. Sure he made a mistake but we know why, because he was frustrated at playing a solo role and that he was desperate for more help, so he could aid his country. I'm proud of Rooney and I will defend him to the very end because he showed passion and fought for everything he could fight for, for us, for England.

Now you are on Beckham's back for doing the same but expressing it differently and for what, because he's a "ladyboy" or something like that? For me the guy showed passion, a different kind of passion but passion nevertheless. From the moment he got injured, he knew damn well that he would play no further part in that game and beyond. All he could do was sit and watch in frustration / desperation, powerless to do anything. Can you imagine how much that must have driven him crazy? He was exasperated and no doubt frustated with himself too for getting injured. He showed that he was desperate to do something for the Three Lions and then cried because he couldn't. That is passion but a different type that doesn't probably appeal to the "men" amongst us.
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Post by westlondonhammer »

He has been a good player over the years, but i never really saw him as a leader at the time and i do not see him as a leader now! All you have to do is look at the way rooney reacted in the spain friendly (i think last year!)

Since SWP burst on the scene and now lenon, we have had players who can add more to the team! I do think it is time to do what holland and the argies have done to the squad and forget egos and go for players based on form and ability! I can see beckham, sol and james being the major casualties and beckham has jumped here before he was pushed! Best england team for the near future IMO should be:

Robinson,
nevile, rio, terry, cole
gerrard, lampard, hargreaves, cole
rooney, striker 2 (ashton, bent, owen, harewood, defoe, whoever deserves it at the time)

this way gerrard would play exactly in the same position as he does at liverpool! Although fat frank has had an awful world cup, he has got more than anyone to prove himself in the next qualifying stage, if all fails with him bring barton, nolan or NRC in! It is still to early IMO for lennon but bringing him off the bench changes the formation of the team and adds a new diversity!

Thanks for all you've done for us beckham but concentrate on your club football like shearer did towards end of his career and try to win something for real!
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Post by WCpete »

PaulTheHammer wrote:To me this smacks of the message "Grown men don't cry".

I completely and utterly disagree with you. I want to see players who give a damn to be honest and there were a few this World Cup who I felt casually strolled their way through. Rooney made a mistake in his sending off, a big one BUT he is a player that cares about the shirt he is wearing. Everything he does, is passionate and for a cause. Sure he made a mistake but we know why, because he was frustrated at playing a solo role and that he was desperate for more help, so he could aid his country. I'm proud of Rooney and I will defend him to the very end because he showed passion and fought for everything he could fight for, for us, for England.

Now you are on Beckham's back for doing the same but expressing it differently and for what, because he's a "ladyboy" or something like that? For me the guy showed passion, a different kind of passion but passion nevertheless. From the moment he got injured, he knew damn well that he would play no further part in that game and beyond. All he could do was sit and watch in frustration / desperation, powerless to do anything. Can you imagine how much that must have driven him crazy? He was exasperated and no doubt frustated with himself too for getting injured. He showed that he was desperate to do something for the Three Lions and then cried because he couldn't. That is passion but a different type that doesn't probably appeal to the "men" amongst us.
Nope. You haven't grasped my point at all. I have no problem with Beckham being emotional. In fact I have no problem with any man, woman, child, dog, cat etc being emotional in public, in private or on the moon fro that matter.

My point is very simple. After the emotion of the moment subsides, brush yourself off and get your head back into the game. Becks looked utterly defeated for the rest of the match. If you are going to take on the role of captain, then it is imperative that you resume the role asap after such a tragic incident, whether you're on the field or off. I think Becks has been, by and large, a very dignified representative of his country's national team. Particularly I commend him for the way he picked himself up and quietly and strongly fought his way to the top after his sending off against Argentina in '98. But I'm afraid I don't agree with his despondence in this situation. I just don't.

I welcome people to disagree with me. Absolute fair play. Understand these points though. I'm talking about David Beckham's role in this one match exclusively. I haven't mentioned or made reference to any other player; Lamps, Rooney etc. Stop trying to suggest that I'm condemning the whole team for lack of passion. Secondly, I'm not calling into question anybody's 'manliness'. That's an absurd notion that I do not espouse. When Beck's came off and broke down, I fwlt terrible for the man. What despair he must have felt. However, as captain, he needed to put that aside after a while and get his head back into the game. I feel strogly about that. i sympathize that his role as captain ended in such a way, I really do, but I stand by my opinion.

We've spent too much time on this now, so that's all I'm going to post on the subject. Sorry if I have offended you. Such is life, to each their own.
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Post by Claret & Blue World »

Totally agree WCPete.......

I used to think he was an utter embarrassment to England and English football when quite clearly, excluding the occassional free kick and quality pass, he really did f.. all else for the team - lacked contribution, poor tackler, poor in the air, seldom scored, cant dribble, hides when the pressures on etc etc

but then I realised that what England did miss and more importantly what kept the prima donna in an England shirt for so long was in fact a quality replacement.

That was until I saw Lennon this World Cup.

Cheers Becks for the (very few) memories but onwards and upwards............
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