Leaflets at the Derby Game

[Doc H Ball]

WHU's View? aim to distribute 20,000 leaflets at Saturday's game.

Perhaps someone more computer literate than I can post them on this thread...

The leaflets call for a ballot of all s/t holders and members before bidding for the tennancy of the O.S. and ask fans to register in support. The leaflets also quote the owners when they have pledged to consult.

Anyone willing to hand out leaflets and who hasn't already responded to a WHU's View group e mail, please PM me and I will add you to the list.

This is the first major step up in this campaign for a ballot.

[The Rebirth]

David Gold said on Twitter today that 120 Season ticket holders were consulted on the move.

Who are they?

[Doc H Ball]

Dunno.

Why only 120, when was this and what were they asked? What does he fear from consulting all 18,000?

The Rebirth - fancy joining us? Your input would be valuable I think.

[MD_HM]

I still dont know how they are expected to fully consult IF they dont know what they can actually do at the OS yet or what deal they can get, there would be too many possibilities to consult on all of them with 18k fans.

They might know what they want to do, consult with 18k fans get their backing and then find out they cant do that after all so need to start from stratch.

As a season ticket holder at present I would not be able to vote one way or another without knowing exactly what I am voting for…

Anyone that says they could vote now without the facts obviously have preconceived views on the subject so voting would be based only on personal convenience and preference not based on the best choice for the future for the club.

[paulhs1]

I still dont know how they are expected to fully consult IF they dont know what they can actually do at the OS yet or what deal they can get, there would be too many possibilities to consult on all of them with 18k fans.

They might know what they want to do, consult with 18k fans get their backing and then find out they cant do that after all so need to start from stratch.

As a season ticket holder at present I would not be able to vote one way or another without knowing exactly what I am voting for…

Anyone that says they could vote now without the facts obviously have preconceived views on the subject so voting would be based only on personal convenience and preference not based on the best choice for the future for the club.

I think I did mention before that we are not asking for a fan consultation RIGHT NOW. But are asking for a commitement that the club will conduct an indpependently audited consultation before bidding.

[Wembley1966]

WHU's View? aim to distribute 20,000 leaflets at Saturday's game.

Perhaps someone more computer literate than I can post them on this thread...

Doc - can you get someone to scan them and post on here - or whoever did the artwork for the printers would be able to create a pdf that could be made available for people to download or create an image from.

[paulhs1]

Please note that this is the Jpeg version and not the final artwork.

[MD_HM]

I think I did mention before that we are not asking for a fan consultation RIGHT NOW. But are asking for a commitement that the club will conduct an indpependently audited consultation before bidding.

Surely they need to win the bid to know if their plans will be accepted? They might not be but an alternative compromised…. I just think that until they know what they are able to do at the OS a ballot seems pointless as its subject to change.

Once the club has won the bid and had its proposal accepted then the fans can be consulted on how that will exactly work, branding things like that...

You will have season ticket holders that wouldn’t want to move to Stratford even if it was a purpose built football stadium… So how is that decision based on the best future for the club? Its not…

How does holding a season ticket qualify you to make multi million pound business decisions?

[mywhufc]

Surely they need to win the bid to know if their plans will be accepted? They might not be but an alternative compromised…. I just think that until they know what they are able to do at the OS a ballot seems pointless as its subject to change.

Once the club has won the bid and had its proposal accepted then the fans can be consulted on how that will exactly work, branding things like that...

remember were not bidding to run the stadium any more, were just asking if we can give the owners of the stadium 2 million per year to play football in their stadium, so before they say we will take it perhaps ONCE the details of the stadium are released we should be asked if thats what we want, but if no plans are released then the fans can only make their minds up on info available and make their decision based on that. so i would imagine its in the best interest of the club to inform the fans of what the OPLC are giving us for our 2 million.

You will have season ticket holders that wouldn’t want to move to Stratford even if it was a purpose built football stadium… So how is that decision based on the best future for the club? Its not…

How does holding a season ticket qualify you to make multi million pound business decisions?

If football is a business then its season ticket holders are its customers with loyalty cards,
If this business is going to make its biggest change in its lifetime then surely it needs to make sure its customers are happy with that change and will follow business to the new premises, surely that business needs to know how many will follow or how many will not follow to said new premises, will they be able to attract new customers that will stick by that business, like the present customers have, during the hard times. some customers once going to new site and perhaps finding that it wasn't quite what the business had said it would be like may take their custom away.if that business dosent take its customers with them, that business could be in trouble in the future.

[paulhs1]

Surely they need to win the bid to know if their plans will be accepted? They might not be but an alternative compromised…. I just think that until they know what they are able to do at the OS a ballot seems pointless as its subject to change.

Once the club has won the bid and had its proposal accepted then the fans can be consulted on how that will exactly work, branding things like that...

You will have season ticket holders that wouldn’t want to move to Stratford even if it was a purpose built football stadium… So how is that decision based on the best future for the club? Its not…

How does holding a season ticket qualify you to make multi million pound business decisions?

I think Mywhufc has covered most points. But I think the key issue here is that the owners keep saying that they now want to consult the fans (see the David Gold quote that he said on talksport). We are making every effort to ensure that the owners make good their promises and consult us over this move!

[MD_HM]

A real fan would watch West Ham if we played over Wansted Flats or the best stadium in the world, most fans CANNOT decide to just stop supporting their team.

I am agreeing that I think the fans should be balloted on certain aspects of the move but I think you will only get a true and fair reflection once final plans are known.

I want to club to say these are the plans we have, they have been 100% agreed by all parties concerned – as a loyal fan, what is your opinion…

BUT I don’t agree with any sort of ballot without the final plans for the OS.

So my point is until the final plans are in the public domain then I don’t think a ballot should happen.

[paulhs1]

A real fan would watch West Ham if we played over Wansted Flats or the best stadium in the world, most fans CANNOT decide to just stop supporting their team.

I am agreeing that I think the fans should be balloted on certain aspects of the move but I think you will only get a true and fair reflection once final plans are known.

I want to club to say these are the plans we have, they have been 100% agreed by all parties concerned – as a loyal fan, what is your opinion…

BUT I don’t agree with any sort of ballot without the final plans for the OS.

So my point is until the final plans are in the public domain then I don’t think a ballot should happen.

To be fair it's not really got anything to do with being a 'real fan' it's about the fans being consulted. Also, although it was tongue in cheek, it’s a little unrealistic to say that most fans would follow West Ham over Wanstead flats, especially as the whole debate is centred around moving to Stratford to gain more long terms support and corporate hospitality etc. Perhaps you may get 20,000 cram in, in the first few years, but will the kids follow us in 10 years’ time at Wanstead flats or Spurs at their nice shiny new stadium in Tottenham. So although it was tongue in cheek I think it was probably the wrong analogy to use in this particular debate !
Not everyone will agree to a ballot now, but many will and already do! Our opinion is that enough information should be made available for most fans to make a good assessment of the OPLC'S proposals before the bid goes in. And remember that we are not going to be the owners anymore just tenants and the key points of the tenancy would have been made and set in stone by the OPLC in December that will be non-negotiable by the winning bidder.
Don't forget that many fans are concerned that we will be selling UP, where we currently have a say in how the stadium is used and run, to then become tenants of a stadium that we will be sharing with other sports, events & companies and will have possibly no say in how the stadium will be run and could in fact be asked to rearrange fixtures to fit in with the stadiums requirements. And so a key point and question will be about whether the fans want to move from UP for a stadium that we will not own and therefore in effect have hardly any control or say in certain matters that will affect the club in the long term.
I think most West Ham fans will be sensible enough to make a fair assessment, but as already stated some fans do not want to be consulted and their opinions should also be respected.

[terrapinstation]

BUT I don’t agree with any sort of ballot without the final plans for the OS.

So my point is until the final plans are in the public domain then I don’t think a ballot should happen.

Fair enough mate, but no one is asking for a ballot next week. Does it not make sense to you that it is necessary to put this kind of pressure on the owner so that the public can be informed (for once) what their plans are? We've heard Brady and Gold say things about retractable seating, yet seen no plans. Gold has pointed out that there are a number of question marks, so it's only fair that the fans are at the very least informed of the EXACT conditions of the move and/or bid.

You've made it very clear that you don't find it reasonable to conduct a poll without the information-- and I completely agree-- but that is not the aim of Whu's View, as you are making it out to be! If it weren't for this group putting in the time and effort to go to these lengths to build momentum, we may never see the necessary information regarding the move. We still may not see information OR a ballot, but I feel like you are failing to realise the absolute necessity of this campaign and how instrumental it is for Whu's View to be doing things like passing out 20,000 leaflets this Saturday.

We're all together in this one, regardless of opinions on the move. The fans deserve to know more, and they deserve a say.

[MD_HM]

Its about opinions….

I don’t think we will see plans or a ballot from the club until anything is agreed or bids won…

So on that basis I am just worried as I can see this leading to unofficial ballots with a majority of voters being very against the move without the facts and this being used in the media against the club which in turn may effect our chances of getting the OS.

Spurs have already done a good job of ruining our first chances we don’t need our own doing us over for a second.

[Pop Robson]

David Gold said on Twitter today that 120 Season ticket holders were consulted on the move.

Who are they?

Supporters Advisory Group members ?

Not even 1% of the existing STH's

[paulhs1]

Its about opinions…..

Indeed this is why we are pushing for a consultation.

I don’t think we will see plans or a ballot from the club until anything is agreed or bids won….

But this is where the problems lie, the club should be consulting us before bidding and in fact this should have already been done a long time ago.

So on that basis I am just worried as I can see this leading to unofficial ballots with a majority of voters being very against the move without the facts and this being used in the media against the club which in turn may effect our chances of getting the OS.…..

And this is precisely why the club need to honour there pledge to consult the fans, their lack of transparency thus far has led to many people being anti.

Spurs have already done a good job of ruining our first chances we don’t need our own doing us over for a second.

To say that "our own fans are doing us over" (meaning Whu's view) is in my opinion a poor choice of words.
I and none of the Whu'sview members have any intention of harming the football club infact quite the opposite. I think most of the fans will be able to see this is the case!

[The Rebirth]

Dunno.

Why only 120, when was this and what were they asked? What does he fear from consulting all 18,000?

The Rebirth - fancy joining us? Your input would be valuable I think.

I'm Pro (although would hate it in its current format) though I have a feeling most of your group are very much Anti. I wouldn't want to clash when that isn't the true goal of what you're trying to achieve.

I do think people are asking for the right (which they will never be given) so they can simply say no.

Maybe I'm wrong there but that's my own view.

[bendavids]

I'm Pro (although would hate it in its current format) though I have a feeling most of your group are very much Anti. I wouldn't want to clash when that isn't the true goal of what you're trying to achieve.

I do think people are asking for the right (which they will never be given) so they can simply say no.

Maybe I'm wrong there but that's my own view.

I agree Rebirth.

I'd go as far as to say I don't even want a vote in a ballot becuase even if I did know all the details, I am in no way qualified to make such a decision.
Not everyone is going to be happy with the outcome of the Olympic stadium debacle so I'd rather the professionals/ people whose neck is on the line make the decision themselves rather than listening to the fans whose primary job is to support the team.

Fan feedback is important in general, but this is a whole lot bigger than asking for cheaper beer or a better selection of pies, etc.

[Concerned of Canvey]

Supporters Advisory Group members ?

Not even 1% of the existing STH's

But still 10x the number of people who turned up to the first WHU View Meeting.

I definitely agree that there must be consultation with the Fans but after we have been confirmed as the preferred bidder.

As I understand it, if we are the preferred bidder then we are not legally bound to take over at the OS.

David Gold has said that he will consult with us, and to me the most logical time would be after we have Preferred Bidder Status, after the Plans have been released but BEFORE we sign the contract to takeover the OS.

I applaud what you are trying to do and I would agree with it if the flyer said the consultation should be timed before any Contracts were signed with the OPLC.

[paulhs1]

I'm Pro (although would hate it in its current format) though I have a feeling most of your group are very much Anti. I wouldn't want to clash when that isn't the true goal of what you're trying to achieve.

If the club were to consult you now then you would be able to raise your concerns over the stadium/deal being in it's current format, the club could then take this on board when bidding, as per all the other comments taht you have given them over time when you wanted to consult with the owners.