Transfer Window: Summer 2013

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mumbles87
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by mumbles87 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:08 am

wizzo_66 wrote: No, not at all.

He wasn't a professional footballer, just an youth team player, with no club. We offered him a place at our Academy, he graduated. Simple as really.

Academy graduate.
Fair point.

I just guess im very particular about labels. OCD lol id have two classes. Full academy product (entire youth carear) and Academy graduate (anyone else).

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saludo de carlitos
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by saludo de carlitos » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:13 am

hammerdivone wrote:Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
bbbbbbbbbbbb's brother?

Faded & Dead
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Faded & Dead » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:16 am

saludo de carlitos wrote:Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
bbbbbbbbbbbb's brother?
That it bee

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jaybs
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by jaybs » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:23 am

Gerblatz wrote:I make that 6 from our current squad who have come through the academy. 8-)
Yes that's why we are Proud to be known as "The Academy"

But................. when was the last player introduced to the first team and kept his place??

mumbles87
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by mumbles87 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:39 am

jaybs wrote: Yes that's why we are Proud to be known as "The Academy"

But................. when was the last player introduced to the first team and kept his place??
I make it Mark Noble. Although he lost his place at the end of the season I put that down to an unlucky injury which once back he couldnt just kick the player who had filled in and been playing well out of the team

Have we ever produced a goalkeeper from the academy? bywater made an appearance for rochdale before we signed him (and that could be a good rule on the whole "academy" thing.. if they have made a first team appearance for another league team then doesnt count)

didnt realise that bywater has been lomas' first signing for the scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my gosh is he trying to make West ham mark 2.. whos next ? Reid.. hines?

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Hayden
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Hayden » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:58 am

hammersk wrote:and the nearest thing we have to a regular since then, is Tomkinson, who is effectively a reserve.
Well this is just all shades of wrong!!

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by jumbo » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:00 pm

It's a bigger problem in English football than just West Ham's Academy.

We have above average Academy graduated players in our 1st team which is nice to see, especially as we like to call ourselves The Academy.

It's just that English academies aren't producing what they used to. Sure, you can say look at Zaha or Ince, they're 20 and going for around £10m but that's not the real evaluation.

They both played in EURO U21 tournament and looked completely amateurish. Just look at Spain - I know they often look boring with their passes but it's not that - those players are ready-made, you can throw them into every single team on this planet and they'll adapt and play at their best. We pamper English players and let them get used to one single position in one single team setting - but as soon as the system is being changed even a tiny bit they start to look out of depth and completely amateurish.

I don't like it that English Premier League has so many foreigners but that's the reality - they are better footballers for a lesser price and football's just business, nothing else.

Another fact I'd like to bring up is that most of the U21 footballers that played in EURO are still on scholarships which basically mean they're earning nice money but not more than £1-2k p/w. And most of footballers played better than English ones.

hammersk
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by hammersk » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:05 pm

jumbo wrote:It's a bigger problem in English football than just West Ham's Academy.
When you look at the teams above and around us in the league,
there are lots of younger (and teen-age) players making more significant
contributions than ours are.

...even at Spurs.

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vapourtrail
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by vapourtrail » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:13 pm

hammersk wrote: When you look at the teams above and around us in the league,
there are lots of younger (and teen-age) players making more significant
contributions than ours are.

...even at Spurs.
This!!! If our clubs wants to become a top 10 side, that wants to challenge for Europe, our academy has to produce real talent, otherwise we'll depend on dodgy agents :arry: and managers, who love their hire & fire policy.

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GeorgeParris'Pet
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by GeorgeParris'Pet » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:21 pm

hammersk wrote: ...even at Spurs.
Rubbish, the only academy players they have that make it are players they poached from other clubs' academies at 16+ years of age

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Hampshire Hammer
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Hampshire Hammer » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:25 pm

hammersk wrote: When you look at the teams above and around us in the league,
there are lots of younger (and teen-age) players making more significant
contributions than ours are.
Are there, off the top of my head I can't think of many? When I talk to fans of other clubs the lack of British youth getting a chance seems to be a general theme.

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The Gibbins
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by The Gibbins » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:28 pm

I think Spurs method is the only way nowadays unless by luck you manage to pick up some s**t hot talent in the local area. Spurs have had some absolute steals through this method, whereas admittedly some haven't quite worked out.

Dawson, Lennon, Huddlestone, Kyle Waler, Kyle Naughton and Bale all play a big enough role in a decent Spurs Squad. Bale always had potential and the fee they paid was massive but i suppose you look at it now and it was a bargain!

Youth teams are important but i don't think you can rely solely on them anymore. You can even sense the change here at West Ham where we are signing older kids and developing from there. We are yet to throw as much money into it as Spurs have though as they did take risks with the likes of Lennon, Huddlestone etc.... Bale especially, though his high fee now looks a bargain!

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ageing hammer
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by ageing hammer » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:35 pm

Give the Academy debate a break lads please, we want transfer news.

The bloody Police Academy films didn't go on as long as this crap. :)
Last edited by ageing hammer on Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Side of Ham
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Side of Ham » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:41 pm

I can't see why so many are so upset by the Academy not producing any players these days, i can see why Manchester United, Chelsea and Spurs would be upset though.

Willtelll
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Willtelll » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:42 pm

How about some transfer news instead of discussing Police Academy films....

jumbo
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by jumbo » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:50 pm

hammersk wrote:When you look at the teams above and around us in the league,
there are lots of younger (and teen-age) players making more significant
contributions than ours are.

...even at Spurs.
That's a very good point. I was very disappointed that we had no players in senior, U21 and U20 England squads except Potts who is playing at a very unfashionable left-back position. But if (academy wise speaking) Palace's Zaha and Liverpool's Sterling and Ince are country's best prospects, we'll be in a lot of trouble in a 5 years time.

To be honest, we need to accept that maturity takes precedence over experimentation at our club right now. And that choice was the difference between finishing just above relegation zone (such as Villa) and 10th place. I understand people would like to see 19-year olds tearing the league apart but it's not possible right now. Sure, if you played Hall and Turgott 38 times this season you would get one or two curlers in the top corner but it wouldn't have been pretty when we played Man City or Liverpool because we'd get ripped apart on the wings because these youngsters are still babies in terms of development - they don't know how to defend properly and defence is what mattered when we nicked points here and there. I was furious at times at Sam for playing older players instead of giving youngsters a chance but the more you watch the team under him, the more you understand. In reality, Academy doesn't have polished diamonds right now which would be worth the risk if you threw them into the battlefield that Premier League is.

Sam has built an above average squad for peanuts. 2 centre backs are young (Tomkins & Reid), so are our wings (Vaz Te & Jarvis), our centre forward (Carroll) and our defensive midfield pairing (Noble & Diame). So is Adrian who is expected to be our first keeper after this season.

We don't spend much on full backs because 1) it's a position where experience matters and 2) best players are worth upwards of £15m which we can't afford and 3) Sam loves a bargain. Only other notable "old" player is Nolan who is the heart of this team, the captain and scorer of 23 goals in the last two seasons, more than any other player.

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BillUp
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by BillUp » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:33 pm

I see Ian Brady is looking for a transfer this Summer. He would fit in well behind Noble.

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Absentee Hammer
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Absentee Hammer » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:38 pm

mumbles87 wrote:
can collison really count? what age again did we nick him off cambridge?
Just being pedantic here Mumbles, but you cannot really "nick" a player, when their club decides to close their Acadamy due to relegation from the football league.

Otherwise I agree, he was not developed in his early years through our acadamy, he joined us when he was 17.

Edit, Sorry I was playing catch-up and then later saw my point raised by others...
Last edited by Absentee Hammer on Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mushy
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by mushy » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:41 pm

Whats all this about a new Police Academy Film?
Why is this the first I have heard?

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Aceface
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Aceface » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:42 pm

Jefferson Montero's agent keeps bigging up his client's game against the Argies the other day in the press as the reason for the interest in him. Just watched the video of his play in that match - certainly knows how to turn on the pace to zip past his marker but don't think a single cross found its man. Air ball after air ball after air ball. And that's him on a good day, apparently.

Hope it's not Barrera all over again if we are thinking about him.
Last edited by Aceface on Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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