Transfer Window: Summer 2013

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Bury Me @ The Boleyn
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bury Me @ The Boleyn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:40 pm

Just so everyone's on the same page:

We still need help with the front line, however, it is impossible to get help on the front line unless we clear out a substantial amount of wages. That means removing a few squad players wherever there may be a surplus to requirements. It also means we might find it necessary to sell one of our more desirable assets (namely Tomkins, but to a lesser extent Vaz Te and Diarra). We will likely need to sell/loan multiple players to make up the wage difference.

As long as we're clear on all that, I want to point out some of the things I find worth noting:

-Selling Tomkins without replacing him with a competent 3rd choice CB is a dangerous, dangerous gamble. I understand that Joey O'B can cover along the back, but he's not a natural CB and it leaves us dangerously thin. Selling Tomkins likely means splitting the dosh between a 3rd CB and a 2nd ST.
-Selling both Vaz Te and Maiga to afford the wages of a 2nd striker does us little good. Particularly if that striker also has an injury history (like Ba's dodgy knee). We must keep one of Vaz Te or Maiga to be the 3rd option even if we bring in a #2. Cannot sell both.
-Selling Diarra thins both the CDM and CB roles. With an already thin back line, it could be dangerous to sell someone that can competently fill two of those positions. The thing to remember when selling a player is that it needs to be for the good of the squad. Diarra adds a layer of insurance at two positions where insurance is needed.

Just my .02

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Turns to Stone
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Turns to Stone » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:46 pm

Bury Me @ The Boleyn wrote:
-Selling Tomkins without replacing him with a competent 3rd choice CB is a dangerous, dangerous gamble. I understand that Joey O'B can cover along the back, but he's not a natural CB and it leaves us dangerously thin. Selling Tomkins likely means splitting the dosh between a 3rd CB and a 2nd ST.
-Selling both Vaz Te and Maiga to afford the wages of a 2nd striker does us little good. Particularly if that striker also has an injury history (like Ba's dodgy knee). We must keep one of Vaz Te or Maiga to be the 3rd option even if we bring in a #2. Cannot sell both.
-Selling Diarra thins both the CDM and CB roles. With an already thin back line, it could be dangerous to sell someone that can competently fill two of those positions. The thing to remember when selling a player is that it needs to be for the good of the squad. Diarra adds a layer of insurance at two positions where insurance is needed.
None of these things will happen.

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Bury Me @ The Boleyn
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bury Me @ The Boleyn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:47 pm

I hope not, but they've all been mentioned several times in this thread. This post was me kind of addressing all of those mentions at once.
Last edited by Up the Junction on Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Double quote removed.

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Turns to Stone
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Turns to Stone » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:51 pm

Bury Me @ The Boleyn wrote:I hope not, but they've all been mentioned several times in this thread. This post was me kind of addressing all of those mentions at once.
It's cause and effect though. If Tomkins was sold, it's because he is a saleable asset, and as a third choice centre-back could be cheaply replaced.

Selling Vaz Te and Maiga and not replacing them both would leave us in a worse position than we are now.

If Diarra is sold, he will be replaced (possibly on loan) by a player who will take up less wages.

Allardyce is a belt and braces chap.

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by jenkins89 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:54 pm

Bury Me @ The Boleyn wrote:I hope not, but they've all been mentioned several times in this thread. This post was me kind of addressing all of those mentions at once.
If what's discussed on the KUMB transfer thread constitutes our club's policy then I am seriously worried for the direction of our club.

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by MS in the West » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:58 pm

If we have done all this window's deals - and I accept there may be a surprise or two - and Maiga is back up for Carroll, my guess is that there'll be a degree of variation in the way we approach games with Maiga as opposed to Carroll. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we'll start playing tippy tappy Barca stuff. But it would be stupid to play Maiga as if he had Carroll's strengths. With the midfield we have there is more capacity to mix things up a bit more, simply because the options, and frankly skills levels, are higher than we came with into the beginning of last season

Anywy we'll soon find out, as we don't expect to see Carroll against Cardiff

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by denzel » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:02 pm

Thanks for the info BF!

Quite glad we didn't go in for Remy. We don't need the negative media attention that he would have brought and I feel he may have disrupted the excellent team spirit we have here. :thup:

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bury Me @ The Boleyn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:11 pm

jenkins89 wrote: If what's discussed on the KUMB transfer thread constitutes our club's policy then I am seriously worried for the direction of our club.
Oh I agree completely. I was just trying to point out why the Daves and Sam had a more complicated job than many of the people on the board seem to give them credit for. Those saying 'Sell him, him and him for him!' are generally oversimplifying the situation.

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by rudeboydubs » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:15 pm

MS in the West wrote:If we have done all this window's deals - and I accept there may be a surprise or two - and Maiga is back up for Carroll, my guess is that there'll be a degree of variation in the way we approach games with Maiga as opposed to Carroll. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we'll start playing tippy tappy Barca stuff. But it would be stupid to play Maiga as if he had Carroll's strengths. With the midfield we have there is more capacity to mix things up a bit more, simply because the options, and frankly skills levels, are higher than we came with into the beginning of last season

Anywy we'll soon find out, as we don't expect to see Carroll against Cardiff

great point we now officially have a Plan B ..maybe we can use maiga's qualities instead of trying to get him to pretend to be AC lol will help us be less predictable.

Faded & Dead
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Faded & Dead » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:21 pm

cockneySparrow wrote:Forgive my ignorance on the transfer window basics but when does it actually close? Is it midnight prior to the first game or does it run until the end of the month?

Yours :?

BTW love this window so far and the way our little club is growing.
It runs until the end of the month, mate

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the celestial insect
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by the celestial insect » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:28 pm

BrownFatwa wrote: I think I'm right in saying we havent used any of our loan capacity yet and that is significant I feel.
My thoughts exactly, although in my case it's just opinion

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bamber Gascoigne » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:29 pm

Window closes 11:00pm Monday 2nd September

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Bury Me @ The Boleyn
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bury Me @ The Boleyn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:33 pm

BrownFatwa wrote: I think I'm right in saying we havent used any of our loan capacity yet and that is significant I feel.
the celestial insect wrote:My thoughts exactly, although in my case it's just opinion
The one thing that concerns me is that loans count against wages. According to Sully we have no wage room due to the FFP rules. Loans could be difficult this term unless we ship a few people out.

If business is done for the window, I'm okay with that. If it isn't, the next step is relief on the wage packet.

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Pulls up Trees
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Pulls up Trees » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:35 pm

MS in the West wrote:If we have done all this window's deals - and I accept there may be a surprise or two - and Maiga is back up for Carroll, my guess is that there'll be a degree of variation in the way we approach games with Maiga as opposed to Carroll. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we'll start playing tippy tappy Barca stuff. But it would be stupid to play Maiga as if he had Carroll's strengths. With the midfield we have there is more capacity to mix things up a bit more, simply because the options, and frankly skills levels, are higher than we came with into the beginning of last season

Anywy we'll soon find out, as we don't expect to see Carroll against Cardiff
Maybe we'll see Morrison replace Nolan for the games with Maiga up-front...? Would certainly offer more of a foil for Maiga's style than El Capitan.

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Bury Me @ The Boleyn » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:39 pm

Pulls up Trees wrote:Maybe we'll see Morrison replace Nolan for the games with Maiga up-front...? Would certainly offer more of a foil for Maiga's style than El Capitan.
I discussed that possibility with a friend just yesterday. We were talking about Ba at the time, though. If we were to somehow secure a loan/transfer for Ba, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we started Morrison whenever Ba was the ST. Ba isn't a traditional target man and I think Morrison offers more in terms of opportunities created on the floor. That little wrinkle could drive teams nuts-- they wouldn't know exactly how to prepare for us, as was the case last season.

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Simply Moore » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:49 pm

I'm not sure if we are speculating or if the owners have actually said publicly that due to ffp we would need to sell before bringing in anyone but if they have, that seems a rather strange strategy to me. Surely anyone with any interest in any of our players will feel they can low ball us under that impression. I just think our owners and Brady are too smart for that to be the case.

I'm sure before the window closes another striker will be coming in.

COYI

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Zippycat57 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:16 pm

We've played a whole pre-season without Carroll and achieved some reasonable results so hopefully there is an 'absence of Carroll' plan which plays to Maiga's (or Vaz Te) strengths.

Like others I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of new arrivals - and a couple of departures as well before 'the door slams shut'

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by hammer1975 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:16 pm

Two points in the 'who do we let go debate'

Firstly, let's not forget that Sam changes at least two midfielders a game. In noble, nolan, joey and diame we have midfielders with form for not lasting 90 on a regular basis at the intensity level sam sets

Secondly, it's only worth letting players go - who have a known level of performance - if we can bring in better for the same or less cost

So think we can forget the a simple approach of showing the starting 11 to then decide we can clear out everyone else to buy a striker

I see diarra and taylor as on wages that would enable us to bring in another player in another - potentially more critical position. Suspect we're actively trying to move on

I see maiga and vaz te probably being on wages that are not game changers and in order to turn their departure into something useful then we need to exit 2 or 3 players in order to pay for an incoming player of good enough standard to improve us wage wise

I see collison on low wages and having little to no transfer value. As a result of that and sam's propensity to swap midfielders i see him and morrison as the two current best value bench options to bring on at 65/70 minutes most games. Will we get better quality for the same cost? I doubt we're actively trying to sell unless the player wants to go but suspect we're open to offers and would prefer to sell diarra and/or taylor based on what sale of either of those two enables us to do versus a collison exit

Tomkins is probably also an 'open to offers' but for different reasons. Namely his wages for a back up are rumoured quite high and we can sell at a decent price and probably replace with same quality for same price or cheaper (arguable whether the right thing long term)

Bench of: adrian, o'brien, tomkins, cole, morrison, collison, x striker - covers sams standard game plan for most matches and provides cover for injuries all over pitch (a consideration but in reality an event far less frequent than the first point). Finally it probably has the right average cost for the alleged cost base we are working to

All IMO and all changes if we bring in first team loan players in anywhere other than up front

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by Topbre_22 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:21 pm

Nolan is no lone striker/target man......this is definitely not an option.
It will be hard to find a stiker who ticks all of the below criteria:

- Low wages
- Willing to be Carroll's understudy
- Better than Maiga/Vaz Te
- A big lump
- Prolific
- Likely to take Carroll's place longterm

I'll take what we have for now and hope for a loan striker who can tick a few of the above criteria.

:crest:

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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014

Post by snooperpooper » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:30 pm

Topbre_22 wrote:Nolan is no lone striker/target man......this is definitely not an option.
It will be hard to find a stiker who ticks all of the below criteria:

- Low wages
- Willing to be Carroll's understudy
- Better than Maiga/Vaz Te
- A big lump
- Prolific
- Likely to take Carroll's place longterm

I'll take what we have for now and hope for a loan striker who can tick a few of the above criteria.

:crest:
I give you Carlton 'Overchuffed' Cole

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