Allardyce: Stick or twist?

[denzel]

Just get rid and he can take that fat scouse ****er with him

He's been playing professional football (mostly in the Premier League) for over a decade now, he's very much not fat, and I'd imagine he's probably slimmer than you. He's scored about 30 goals for us over the last 3 seasons from midfield, people have such short memories.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

I agree Sam shouldn't have dropped him, but that wasn't at odds with many on this forum. They were saying he wasn't good enough after 45 minutes at Sunderland.

Plenty revisionism in here to suit an agenda.

Armero was decent. As was Rat IMHO. Not defensive minded enough for Allardyce though. Full backs need to attack in the modern game. You can tell a lot of Demel's attacking instincts are curtailed as well though with our wingers hugging the touchline all the time

[bobbymooresbracelet]

f*** Sam go out and enjoy the sunshine.

[Aztec Hammer]

I agree Sam shouldn't have dropped him, but that wasn't at odds with many on this forum. They were saying he wasn't good enough after 45 minutes at Sunderland.

Plenty revisionism in here to suit an agenda.

Armero was far out of his depth. It's all well and good having a bit about you going forward but if you have nothing defensively, you can't play in the Prem.

[wizzo_66]

Armero was far out of his depth. It's all well and good having a bit about you going forward but if you have nothing defensively, you can't play in the Prem.

His pace more than got him out of situations that Linda would have struggled in.

He did all right against Liverpool, second highest scorers in the league.

Expecting him to immediately settle is a bit much, but I understood why Linda came back in, he is tried and tested.

Sadly we all want these players to do well but when there is so much pressure on the manager to get the result first and foremost (what he is paid for) he is always going to trust the players he knows what he is going to get from. Nolan is a prime example of that.

[umweb]

ok, just finished reading the 1028 pages for the past 12 hours... very exciting stuff. i think i can finally form an opinion on this. twist if moyes (or anyone with proven experience) is lined up...

the problem is, i haven't really seen any names suggested that would make for interesting viewing and/or proven PL quality. we don't have the resources/balanced books like southampton, swansea, etc to take a chance on an unproven foreign manager either. so i guess stick until the end of his contract this year... 2nd season up is always tough, will be interesting to see what happens this year. so yeah. 1028 pages and i guess it sounds like i'm undecided...

[Morocco Mole]

Armero was decent. As was Rat IMHO. Not defensive minded enough for Allardyce though. Full backs need to attack in the modern game. You can tell a lot of Demel's attacking instincts are curtailed as well though with our wingers hugging the touchline all the time

This full back thing is getting boring now.

Does no one remember Ricardo Gardner....?

[Fishdo]

Sadly we all want these players to do well but when there is so much pressure on the manager to get the result first and foremost (what he is paid for) he is always going to trust the players he knows what he is going to get from. Nolan is a prime example of that.

I agree with you mate about Amerro and a few others....

And I understand your point about getting the result.... But surely that needs to be balanced against improving your squad or individuals by giving them the chance to play .... By not doing so we will never improve or at least won't develop a depth in our squad..

There are games where prudence (or that pressure you mention) is necessary but there are always opportunities to balance that against an attempt to improve the player or the squad and go forward...

You say with that pressure he utilises Nolan constantly or others ... Because he knows what they offer but why keep doing that when either during a game or based on the previous game those players have not done what he would expect with that pressure... It seems to support the idea that his choices are made on percentages ie he might be what I want every 1 out of 2.5 games sort of thing... But if that's the case you will never get the ability to use that approach on any incoming player because they won't get the chance because they don't have the statistics to be judged by him using his percentages and like any catch 22 that player won't get that percentage call until he gets more by way of statistics/chances...

I understand that pressure comment but I do wonder if that pressure isn't so much for us as a club or even him as the West Ham manager but more his own prestige and that he keeps picking some players because he can't accept to himself that he might be wrong ...

I can applaud a strong will but surely stubbornness or an unwillingness to adapt or even react can be a weakness ....



Plus I do really think that many of his player choices are also influenced by meeting appearance quotas and obtaining the bonuses for certain players that those number of appearances bring... Which in turn lifts the payouts to others associated with those players and benefitting from their contractual payments...

[MB]

Armero was decent. As was Rat IMHO. Not defensive minded enough for Allardyce though. Full backs need to attack in the modern game. You can tell a lot of Demel's attacking instincts are curtailed as well though with our wingers hugging the touchline all the time

You rated Rat? Makes me wonder if it is even worth replying!

Our fullbacks do get forward and do overlap. Enough? Probably not but... The problem is that everything is done at a snails pace so they end up getting blocked out and then playing the ball back to the winger who knocks it in against centre halves who are double marking Carroll.

There is a real lack of zing to our play.

Then they are also too old to have the legs to get back when invariably the move breaks down!

[irving boleyn]

Trouble with the set up is..the fullbacks could overlap the winger,run 40 yards and still be in their own half...

[Crouchend_Hammer]

You rated Rat? Makes me wonder if it is even worth replying!

Yep. Thought he was perfectly decent. No idea why he got bombed out. certainly better than mccartney, who let's be honest couldn't get a regular game for us in the championship
Can.t remember too many blatant mistakes he made, and put in some decent crosses. He had one home game when for the first 15 minutes he couldnt kick straight but that was about it from a negative for me

Seems to be doing pretty well for a mid table team in Spain at the moment

[hxhammer]

He's been playing professional football (mostly in the Premier League) for over a decade now, he's very much not fat, and I'd imagine he's probably slimmer than you. He's scored about 30 goals for us over the last 3 seasons from midfield, people have such short memories.

[/quote]

Have you actually watched him play this season?

I couldn't give two ****'s how many goals he's scored in previous seasons, or how long he's played premier league football, he is blowing out of his fat arse after less than half an hour, mainly due to being on the piss most of the week, he's become a liability and we need to get rid, along with one or two other Sam signings

[Kansas City Milkman]

I couldn't give two ****'s how many goals he's scored in previous seasons, or how long he's played premier league football, he is blowing out of his fat arse after less than half an hour, mainly due to being on the piss most of the week, he's become a liability and we need to get rid, along with one or two other Sam signings

But without his goals we would now be a Championship club

[Nesticles]

Have you actually watched him play this season?

I couldn't give two ****'s how many goals he's scored in previous seasons, or how long he's played premier league football, he is blowing out of his fat arse after less than half an hour, mainly due to being on the piss most of the week, he's become a liability and we need to get rid, along with one or two other Sam signings

I reckon apart from Noble he must cover the most amound of km/miles for us per game.

[wizzo_66]

I reckon apart from Noble he must cover the most amound of km/miles for us per game.

Yep, Noble far and away the winner but Nolan ahead of the rest of the team by a distance too.

Up and down the pitch all game. That's why he's knackered by 60 minutes.

[hxhammer]

But without his goals we would now be a Championship club

So what you're saying is that nobody else playing in his position, could have scored any?

[hxhammer]

Yep, Noble far and away the winner but Nolan ahead of the rest of the team by a distance too.

Up and down the pitch all game. That's why he's knackered by 60 minutes

:lol: Priceless

[Sloop John B]

So what you're saying is that nobody else playing in his position, could have scored any?

No I think he's suggesting that a player who ACTUALLY played and ACTUALLY scored deserves a bit more respect than a player who MIGHT'VE scored IF he'd have been playing.

[Kansas City Milkman]

I'm not saying that at all. Somebody else might have done, or might not, who knows? But I do know who did.

[last.caress]

f*** Sam go out and enjoy the sunshine.

/thread, right there. Until September, anyway.