Allardyce: Stick or twist?

[Whufc06]

I've enjoyed the 1st two games but I wouldn't say last night was entertaining.

[Hockley Hammer]

You cannot just blame the players the manager has to take responsibility for the defeat, like he was given plaudits after the palace win.

His job is to pick a team to win a match, not just give everybody a game.

He did and they should have done but they weren't good enough or clever enough.

Every Premier League team will play a different X1 to their normal one this week in this competition, so he's doing what every other manager is doing.

At half time everybody around me was happy and full of praise for the way we were playing.

Typical West Ham we let an average hard working side back in the game through our own lethargy.

That is one thing that disappoints me about Allardyce. He hasn't been able to stop that kind of performance that I've seen hundreds of over the years.

[Ozza]

Lol Hockley, well he could but it would be classed as being anti west ham

[Up the Junction]

You cannot just blame the players the manager has to take responsibility for the defeat, like he was given plaudits after the palace win.

I don't recall you giving him any plaudits, mick. In fact, I know you didn't. Yet you're only too willing to jump in here when there's an opportunity for criticism.

Not many with you on this one, it seems, as most agreed with the starting line-up.

[wizzo_66]

most agreed with the starting line-up.

Indeed - and the subs too, from where I was in the ground.

Was one of those nights.

[mickfbrown]

I don't recall you giving him any plaudits, mick. In fact, I know you didn't. Yet you're only too willing to jump in here when there's an opportunity for criticism.

Not many with you on this one, it seems, as most agreed with the starting line-up.

I personally didn't give him any plaudits as it was a team he was basically forced into. The major difference on saturday was Zarate playing in the place of Nolan. Actually having an attacking midfielder who could create,dribble and run with the ball as opposed to Nolan receiving the ball and giving it to the wingers. So no I didn't give him any plaudits, if he had dropped Nolan then I would have done.

We lost the game last night so obviously he got either the selection wrong or the tactics wrong. Unless it doesn't matter if we win or lose.....

[wizzo_66]

The major difference on saturday was Zarate playing in the place of Nolan. .....

The major difference this season has been Kouyate. The performances against Spurs and Palace weren't as far apart as some would like to believe.

[Up the Junction]

I personally didn't give him any plaudits as it was a team he was basically forced into.

Utter nonsense.

The major difference on saturday was Zarate playing in the place of Nolan.

Kouyate was far more influential.

We lost the game last night so obviously he got either the selection wrong or the tactics wrong.

I'm sure it was Valencia's penalty miss that cost us passage into the next round. Oh well.

[hammerdivone]

Unless it doesn't matter if we win or lose.....

According to some of the Sam Out brigade, no it doesn't so long as we play the West Ham way

[mickfbrown]

[quote="Up the Junction"][quote="mickfbrown"]I personally didn't give him any plaudits as it was a team he was basically forced into.
Utter nonsense.

Why ?

You think Zarate would have started against Palace ?

I agree with you and Wizzo , Kouyate is an absolute beast.

[rare as rockinghorse shat]

We lost the game last night so obviously he got either the selection wrong or the tactics wrong.

The players still have to perform within those tactics/selections.

A Mark Noble penalty miss was the difference last week between people saying Allardyce got his tactics right and wrong.

[WorcesterWHU]

Managing injuries and suspensions is part of a manager's job - so whilst Nolan may have been out, it was up to Allardyce to make a selection on that basis.

You can't just pick and choose when you give the gaffer credit or grief, otherwise you'll just come off that you don't like the man.

[likemydreams]

West ham lose a game if football , must be Big Sams fault

[Estuary]

Our recurring issue v lower league sides in cup ties transends Allardyce. It has been going on since the 70's. Last nights team was plenty good enough, and tactically well enough set up, but as a group they didnt turn dominance into goals.

[SBB]

I know this is a generalisation however it seems that, with the exception of those that dont care and just want everybody to shut up and get behind the team, those who are attempting seriously discuss Sam from a tactical and ability standpoint seem to offer a huge amount of detail on what they think he gets right but none on his failings (if any).

If we can go out to sheffield united on a Tuesday night at home and the only tactical or performance related criticism the team or manager are going to get is ' It was just one of those nights' or alternatively put our exit out to one penalty miss being the difference between the 2 sides then the bar has been set very low indeed.

A few posts back someone commented that the 'twisters were noticeably quiet after the Palace win. Well the stickers have managed to skillfully avoid this one.

i just wonder why this divisive subject cant be discussed on its merits. And last night there was very little to merit. Ok maybe a few individual performances here and there but we went out at home to the blunts!!

Does anybody here not think that is rubbish?

[SBB]

most agreed with the starting line-up.

[Indeed - and the subs too, from where I was in the ground.

Was one of those nights.

So the selection, tactics and subsitutes were all spot on. So was this game unwinnable? or did somebody somewhere get something wrong?

[mickfbrown]

West ham lose a game if football , must be Big Sams fault

Was Man U losing last night not Van Gaal's fault ?

[red iron]

As much as I'm rather partial to a bit of Big Sam bashing...

We played really well against Spurs and Palace. Last night was pretty dismal and a disappointment but I don't think it's much a stick to beat him with given our first two performances.

Ultimately it's the fault of the players and Sam that we didn't win last night, not just one or the other, but it's a mild embarrassment (and god knows we suffer enough of those...) rather than a disaster.

[carnage]

We lost the game last night so obviously he got either the selection wrong or the tactics wrong.

Are those the only 2 reasons you lose a game Mick?

[Turns to Stone]

I personally didn't give him any plaudits as it was a team he was basically forced into. The major difference on saturday was Zarate playing in the place of Nolan. Actually having an attacking midfielder who could create,dribble and run with the ball as opposed to Nolan receiving the ball and giving it to the wingers.

But Mick, he still made the decisions on Saturday. He could have played Diame in place of Nolan. He could have gone with Poyet and pushed Noble on. He chose the players, he chose the tactics and he got the result.

Last night he did the same.

There seems to be a lot of people who rather than accept that Allardyce may have taken on board some of the issues last year and attempted to play a more fluid style and system, they are just now saying that 'he didn't sign the players and Nolan's injured so he was forced into it'. He's still a tw*t. It's ridiculous and proves what some of us have suspected for a while that there is part of the fanbase who will never, ever give him the opportunity to prove himself, regardless of style, results or performance.