Summer Transfer Window 2017

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westlondonhammer
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by westlondonhammer » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:18 am

Ozza wrote:The signing of Hart is only a good one if we sort out the striker problems that we still have, along with ensuring we have strength in depth with players leaving, otherwise it's ridiculous.
The two aren't linked...we shouldn't not improve 1 area of weakness because there are other weak positions

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MB
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by MB » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:22 am

Fishbone, you may have a point on the top 6 but Palace and Bournemouth both started the season needing a keeper and if he really is top quality why wouldn't other clubs be all over this "fantastic deal".

I see nothing to suggest that managers don't and won't make changes at the drop of a hat if a better player becomes avilable regardless of position

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Crossd_Hammrs
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by Crossd_Hammrs » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:26 am

e17 wrote:If Hart means we don't get flappy McKnight impressionist Randolph starting then that's good enough for me.

Isn't being flappy Hart's biggest weakness though?

I still really can't see us signing Hernadez on those sort of wages.
And Hart would surely need to take a pay cut to join us permanently - unless we're going to give everyone else a massive raise too.
Last edited by Crossd_Hammrs on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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westlondonhammer
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by westlondonhammer » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:27 am

EvilC wrote: A top quality keeper doesn't go to Torino and then West Ham on loan at the peak of his career.
Van der Sar went to Fulham at a similar age to revitalise his career...he was one of the best keepers in the league for a decade

Top clubs are often odd around keepers. Man U at the height of success had some pretty poor keepers while there were plenty of decent around they could have bought...Arsenal haven't always had good keepers opting for punts...even Barcelona don't care too much about who is in goal

It isn't always a case that the best play for the big clubs

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MB
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by MB » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:27 am

Crossd_Hammrs wrote: Isn't being flappy is Hart's biggest weakness?
His nickname amongst the Man City fans is fumble fingers!

happy.hooker
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by happy.hooker » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:27 am

Ifebbubbles wrote:
Not forgetting the fact that you manage to spell his name right every time. That for me is the cherry on the cake.
I was wondering if for the benefit of this site it would become Heart.

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D C
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by D C » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:29 am

Fishbone wrote:
Who has probably been told that he can't join a premier league rival (top 6) and plays in a position where managers don't like change. His options will have been limited and is one of the bigger reasons why we are getting this opportunity to sign him.

If Man Utd sell De Gea, they would be all over this, if Man City would have allowed him to move across the city.
No top 6 club wanted him and to say Man Utd with all their millions would want Joe Hart if De Gea left is just funny.

Even Szczesny ended up at a much better club on loan when he was unwanted at Arsenal.

ashbanki
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by ashbanki » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:34 am

For me, the issue is - How high was a GK on the priority list?
Personally, I think that the ,defensive, priority should be a DM to protect the back four or three, not a GK who may or maybe not better than what we have.
We have had a problem for, at least three seasons, with opposition waltzing through our CM straight on to our defence.The situation was negated,successfully imo,by Payet, in his first season,being such a threat going forward that he was doubled up on or forced the oppo to not commit too many to attack.This gave Noble the time and space to show how good he can be.I don't think playing Lanzini slightly deeper will recreate that and so we need a "controlled destroyer" or a deep lying creator that has a sitting CM (Obiang or Kouyate) by their side.We cannot assume that Hart will rediscover his earlier form and it appears to be a gamble for the sake of a "marquee signing" the owners crave!
Hernandez,Arnautovic,Lemina/Medel and Hart in that order and the owners could stick their heads over the parapet and they would be applauded and give the fans something to look forward to,imo.
Hart, Gray and a last minute "striker scramble" is what we dread and have become somewhat used to,imo.
Defer your interest repayments and get the Hernandez deal done and show some commitment and proof that you are fans first and foremost, ffs!

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hammerdivone
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by hammerdivone » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:35 am

Yea Why Not wrote:Hart will either be a great signing or an absolutely shocking one. There will be no middle ground
There never is on here. It's either black or white. Makes for interesting debates sometimes, but mostly it's boringly repetitious (no doubt I am in that category)

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Roby
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by Roby » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:35 am

The only issue with Hart and although it is negative it should still be considered...

If he does struggle here do we actually buy him next summer? Especially at a substantial fee?

For that reason to protect ourselves I would loan out Adrian this coming season, at least if he goes to Palace he can't play against us anyway. Then flog Randolph as he's clearly not the answer and get a cheaper back up keeper.

Mannone always looked half decent - if both Boro and Sunderland want Randolph I'd demand him as a makeweight in a deal.

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ironilunga
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by ironilunga » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:36 am

MB wrote:Fishbone, you may have a point on the top 6 but Palace and Bournemouth both started the season needing a keeper and if he really is top quality why wouldn't other clubs be all over this "fantastic deal".
I would have been okay with persevering with Adrian but happy enough with Hart. The issue I have, if any, is the loan aspect. I do think the relationship between GK and defence is crucial and one that needs to be developed over time. We have defenders signed up for a good few years and Ijust hope that Hart stays beyond one season otherwise more upheaval.

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MB
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by MB » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:38 am

I'm obviously not a big fan of Hart, but now it looks like he will be our player I will say that if Bilic sets us up right then we can limit his biggest weakness and should be left with a decent keeper. The key is stopping him coming for balls which are better left for the centre halves but I worry about Hart's mentality in this regard. Reid will have a big part to play in keeping Hart focused and calm.

We managed it with a Green to the extent he became England number one but it will take a bit of time for our defence to adjust. I hope it works out, but I really have my doubts.

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MB
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by MB » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:42 am

ashbanki wrote:For me, the issue is - How high was a GK on the priority list?
Personally, I think that the ,defensive, priority should be a DM to protect the back four or three, not a GK who may or maybe not better than what we have.!
From a pure "on paper" perspective I think you are right, but there is clearly something not right with Adrian/Adrian's relationship with Bilic which possibly makes a keeper a higher priority than it would be if we were purely looking at ability.

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MB
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by MB » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:50 am

ironilunga wrote:
I would have been okay with persevering with Adrian but happy enough with Hart. The issue I have, if any, is the loan aspect. I do think the relationship between GK and defence is crucial and one that needs to be developed over time. We have defenders signed up for a good few years and Ijust hope that Hart stays beyond one season otherwise more upheaval.
Bilic only has a year left on his contract too. Could be a right mess next summer (assuming Bilic survives that long)

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bubbles1966
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by bubbles1966 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:52 am

A club aiming for the 'next level' would keep Adrian as the second 'keeper and work on the theory that there will be plenty of cup ties. We should so the same.

Randolph is the player who needs to move on.

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hammer1975
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by hammer1975 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:53 am

Hart was undoubtedly one of the best keepers around a few years back - whether it's compacency or confidence (something important for most positions but even more so for a keeper) he's lost his way a bit relative to that high.

I've often thought it takes a different mentality as a keeper to be in goal for a mid table side where you are kept busy versus a top side where you are called into action twice in a match. He'll see more of the former playing for us (especially if we revert to the tried and porous 4-2-3-1) and I personally think that'll bring more of the best out of him.

The financial details are such that this won't impact our ability to sign a striker THIS summer (£50k per week is on a par with Adrian/Randolph and the sale of one of them will cover the loan fee so it's cost neutral). Obviously it will next summer but we will then be making an informed decision based on how he plays. If we end up not signing enough firepower it won't be because of the Hart signing.

If anything I suspect it will help our striker search. Rate him or not he does have much more of a world footballing brand, which could be seen as a tangible sign by potential striker targets that we are looking to improve on last season rather than accept mid table mediocrity.

I love Adrian and he can be great on his day but it's too easy to gloss over how poor he was in the spell that culminated in the Stoke game. You could feel the tension in the stands every time it went into the air around our box. Randolph just isn't good enough and if we manage to sell him to Newcastle as their first choice then i feel immediately more confident about finishing above them the coming season.

Good signing in my view

Cheers Jinxed :thup:
Last edited by hammer1975 on Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ironilunga
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by ironilunga » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:54 am

MB wrote:There is clearly something not right with Adrian/Adrian's relationship with Bilic.
To use a metaphor I think Adrian is like buying a pair of jeans at Primark - They miraculously look really good when you first wear them out and initially nobody can tell they are not designer. However, suddenly, and without warning, the zip jams. It is a night that you have gone commando and people can see your pubis.

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hammer1975
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by hammer1975 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:00 am

I wonder if there is some thinking around Arnautovic and Hernandez coming as a pair.

If little pea is the main man centrally then it makes sense to surround him with big wide players. If he turns us down and we go for a big striker like Anoubacar or Rondon then we may want a better crossing option out wide...

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MB
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by MB » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:00 am

ironilunga wrote:
To use a metaphor I think Adrian is like buying a pair of jeans at Primark - They miraculously look really good when you first wear them out and initially nobody can tell they are not designer. However, suddenly, and without warning, the zip jams. It is a night that you have gone commando and people can see your pubis.
Thanks for that; you nearly made me spit my coffee out I was laughing so much!

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Ludeksgloves
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Re: Summer Transfer Window 2017

Post by Ludeksgloves » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:04 am

That third save was top draw.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nbQJt92GiLc

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