The summer transfer window 2019 thread

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Great-yarmouth-iron
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Great-yarmouth-iron » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:37 pm

I think people are being to glass half empty with regards to our business. Yes we've sold/released a fair few players but not players that really made an impact last year. The only real two players of note were Arnie and obiang but as we know one down tools in January and the other had limited ability.

The way I see it is that in the past we have signed players that have a questionable injury history. Took a punt on them in the hope that they will come good and that has come back to bite us. With pelle at the wheel we are signing young players that play more games than what they miss.

Amount of games played 2018/19
Carroll 14 games
Haller 29 games missed 35 days this April (abdominal strain)
Fornals 41 games last season (including the euro under 21)
Arnie 28 games played
Rice 34 games played

I think we need to have abit more faith in our recruitment policy we are moving away from the injury prone mercinaries and getting in young hungry and fit players in. Obviously freak injuries can and do happen but theres no consistent problems to be worried about. I think all we need to complete our squad this year is to sign a replacement for obiang and the window for me would go for a 8/10 to a 10/10. :scarfer:

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Het-Field
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Het-Field » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:39 pm

hammer1975 wrote:
That would than also be true of our peers. I don’t get the knocking of Wolves, Everton and Leicester for ‘standing still’ by making Jimenez, Gomes and Tielemens permanent. They made them permanent because they were successful last season (and all would be first teamers for us imo).

We’ve effectively swapped Arnie for Haller and Obiang for Fornals. Those new players may be much better (certainly hope so) - but they are replacing proven premier league players. They should improve our first 11, but we don’t know for sure. Meanwhile an obvious place to make a significant improvement in our first 11 at left back hasn’t been touched.
I feel your first point is why some would have objected to Joao Mario signing permanently. It would have been viewed as static, even though he generally did improve the team.

I often think we have a history of loan players failing, or else doing well and leaving, or initially doing well before dropping off, or in the case of the likes of Jenkinson and Song made a serious impact, re-signed and struggled for consistency. Lanzini has been the best loan deal we have had. And IIrC the deal was made permanent during 2015-2016?

Totally agree with the LB concern. I think that it’s just not seen as a priority, but I feel that could change.

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westlondonhammer
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by westlondonhammer » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:54 pm

Great-yarmouth-iron wrote:I think people are being to glass half empty with regards to our business...
I generally agree with a lot of what you have said

But then again, I've obviously been razzle dazzled so what the f*** do I know.

We've upgraded 2 first teamers and got rid of a lot of waste... that's exactly what I was looking for from this window. I'd have liked a CB upgrade (a dominant CB) but only if we could have got rid of Obgonna or Reid... not in addition to them. Adding numbers of top of numbers over the years was part of our bigger problems over the years.

waynepin
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by waynepin » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:07 pm

I really don't mind if we sign anyone else, we have cleared some deadwood, invested in two players that are for first team spots not squad players, have quality players back from long term injuries and I cannot wait for this season to start, with some luck for a change on injuries I think we are in for a top season a few shocking defeats and some big scalps, maybe starting next week with city, :scarfer:

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by coyi1973 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:16 pm

To be honest, we’re probably only missing three younger players close to the first team at CB, CM and CF. At the moment, we’ve no young central defender pushing close, Coventry in CM is maybe not quite there yet but is probably closest and Silva’s sickness pushed him back maybe a season.

Would be nice to see Coventry or Powell step up to the first team picture.

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Het-Field » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:24 pm

Also, people should be wary of the net spend metric. Also, it’s not as though the club recouped all the money from player sales and releases and then produce a raft of free transfers and loan deals where the club actually made a profit. It was heavily reinvested in Fornals and Haller. I suppose I can’t help but think of 2016/2017 when we signed 11 players over the season for what will be a higher net spend, and almost all of the signings flopped. And those sales, when offset against what we spent in 2017/2018 the Club made a major profit as we chugged along very poorly and needed investment.

I don’t care if you generate funds through sales and re-invest every penny for a neutral net spend. Money can be wasted, and in football it has been.

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Croydon » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:26 pm

There was a common sentiment nearer to the opening of the window that we improve on our first XI by signing better players and resigning the old starter to the bench, fighting to regain their spot in the starting line up.

Yes, we may have upgraded on some of the first XI, but we've also sold the players they're competing against.

We need a CF and a CM. Yes, I am happy with the business we've done so far, but like I've said previously, we're one or two injuries away from a preventable disaster.

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thejackhammer
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by thejackhammer » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:31 pm

It's not sustainable to think we can have a first team ready back up for every player in case of injury.

Antonio is plenty decent enough as cover for Haller, we shouldn't go and drop money on a striker just in case he gets injured. Same goes for Rice, we can't spend big money on a backup that will probably not play.

Sanchez is okay as back up, we can adjust the formation if Rice does go down but he wasnt injured at all last season and Haller and Fornals have good injury records too.

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simon1982
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by simon1982 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:32 pm

Croydon wrote:There was a common sentiment nearer to the opening of the window that we improve on our first XI by signing better players and resigning the old starter to the bench, fighting to regain their spot in the starting line up.

Yes, we may have upgraded on some of the first XI, but we've also sold the players they're competing against.

We need a CF and a CM. Yes, I am happy with the business we've done so far, but like I've said previously, we're one or two injuries away from a preventable disaster.
Obiang is crap. Makes no difference him leaving

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Croydon
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Croydon » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:35 pm

simon1982 wrote:Obiang is crap. Makes no difference him leaving
In your opinion.

What about the others?

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Croydon
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Croydon » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:41 pm

thejackhammer wrote:It's not sustainable to think we can have a first team ready back up for every player in case of injury.

Antonio is plenty decent enough as cover for Haller, we shouldn't go and drop money on a striker just in case he gets injured. Same goes for Rice, we can't spend big money on a backup that will probably not play.

Sanchez is okay as back up, we can adjust the formation if Rice does go down but he wasnt injured at all last season and Haller and Fornals have good injury records too.
I don't care what the spend is. I just want bodies in as I think we're too light.

I don't think Antonio is a good deputy for Haller. Again it's been alluded to on here that MP doesn't have a Plan B, so the personnel essentially needs to be a similar style; for Haller I see the need for someone to hold it up, bring people into play and also score. Antonio doesn't do that for us.

I'd like to see someone brought in who can and therefore leave Antonio in his best position for us where he can cause the opposition the most threat.

As for Rice, we need someone to alleviate the pressure. He's still young, he's got a great head on his shoulders, but if he hits bad form (and he will), are we going to ask him to play through it? Are we confident Sanchez will be able to deputise efficiently?

Our midfield is so soft it's a huge worry for me.

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Gsbgsb » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:44 pm

I keep reading “just add 2/3 players”. We currently have 1 squad space for a homegrown player (which if we had kept him would have gone to Browne). We cannot add these players people want without outgoings and none appear on the horizon. I am sure that players we would have been happy to sell (eg Ogbonna and Hernandez) have not attracted the interest we expected at the start of the summer.

The idiotic decision to close our window early means that there is more limited flexibility in changing the squad as the later deals take place on the continent. For example an Italian club might sell its CB week after next and be interested in Ogbonna but as we could not then replace him (albeit targets are identified - Maripan maybe) we could not afford to sell - and that has very little to do with money but everything to do with timing. Had it happened last week it might be different.

Everyone agrees the squad is not ideal in its composition right now but factors other than just money do go into that.

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LeonRivers
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by LeonRivers » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:45 pm

Graza wrote:replaced Nasri/Fernandes/Obiang with Fornals which is probably a step up from those but as he's one not 3 leaves us vulnerable in depth.
Last season, those three players played 34 games for us between them. 5 of those appearances were in a position that Fornals will be expected to cover. The other 29 matches will be covered by Sanchez and Wilshere, who only played 11 matches between them last season.

I’m all for criticising when it’s due, but keep it fair. :thup:

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by LouieOneChop » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:49 pm

Different formation

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LeonRivers
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by LeonRivers » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:50 pm

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westlondonhammer
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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by westlondonhammer » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:53 pm

Croydon wrote:In your opinion.

What about the others?
Which ones specifically?

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by bristolhammerfc » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:53 pm

In terms of squad makeup, U21 players do not count so there is some scope there.

So we can have 17 non homegrown players with another 8 over 21's registered. It doesn't mean we can't sign more just that one or two players could be sacrificed in terms of squad registration. They can be registered in January if needed.

So fringe or injured players don't HAVE to be included until January if needed.

It just so happens the U21 players are expensive

Edit: What will be interesting is following Brexit, 152 current premiership players wouldn't get a work permit if subjected to the same rules non EU players have now. It means young English and Welsh players price would rocket.

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Puff Daddy » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:56 pm

Diogenes wrote:

Sorry Puff, I might be in the minority, but that is the day I stop supporting West Ham.
I understand that sentiment, but such is the price of players in today's transfer market who will make a significant difference to your team and transform a clubs fortunes, you need owners with phenomenal wealth of the likes very few private investors possess. Yes, there are wealthy people about, G and S do have a few bob, but they and their likes do not have the sort of wealth required to run a successful football club in the current age. I'm not suggesting we follow the Man City model, but Wolves and Leicester have very decent owners, especially so, Leicester and nobody can argue their guys do not have the very best interests of their club at heart and incidentally, if you supported them, would you turn your back on them ?

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Het-Field » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:00 pm

I’m not really understanding how the squad is light?

Without the lure of European Football or much of a history of it, it’s hard to convince players to join us for squad purposes. I can’t help but feel that Lucas Pérez didn’t join us to be a back up. The fact he effectively ended up trading Arsenal’s bench for ours must have had an effect on him leaving this summer. But in truth, the loss of Adrián, Obiang, Perez and Arnie are the only ones that are impactful. Roberto and Martin are direct replacements for Adrian, Fornals a midfielder, and Haller for Arnie. As was said, Wilshere and Sanchez can step up for Obiang. Nasri, Carroll, Fernandes, Oxford, Browne and Byram had minimal or no impact last term, so its neutral seeing them leave. Also, a fit Lanzini replaces Nasri, and young Johnson takes over from Byram.

But, people have to take off the claret and blue specs and realise that our fringe players are unlikely to be world beaters. Good enough, you start. Too good, you leave. Otherwise, you are satisfied to warm the bench in a situation where European Football is anything but guaranteed and cup runs are not always assured.

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Re: The summer transfer window 2019 thread

Post by Gsbgsb » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:03 pm

The move lead many to suggest that we were not West Ham any more, if and when the board sell to mega rich foreign “investors” - and I believe it will happen and they will say it is in the best interests of the club etc as they did with the move - another part of being the West Ham I grew up with will die. That said as with the move I will still see it as part of the evolution of the club because football now is not the same game both on and off the pitch.

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